May I use the improvise ability by tapping artifacts to pay the X cost?
Asked by MindEcho 6 years ago
May I use the tapping of artifacts (improvise) to pay for the X cost on a Whir of Invention if it was the target of a torrential gearhulk?
For Whir of Invention you can of course use improvise to pay for when you cast it normally, otherwise Improvise would be useless, but as stated, when casting it without paying it's mana cost X is 0, and improvise won't change that.
May 8, 2017 3:57 p.m.
Improvise actually says that it takes place after mana abilities. And the ruling on the gatherer also backs me I think. Double check wording and confirm? Thank you
May 8, 2017 4:47 p.m.
2/9/2017 Because improvise isnt an alternative cost, it can be used in conjunction with alternative costs.
May 8, 2017 4:50 p.m.
The issue is when you cast without paying it's mana cost X is set to 0. When you cast Whir of Invention from hand, you choose a value of X, then pay mana, then tap for improvise, then check to make sure you paid all the costs. When you cast without paying it's mana cost X is chosen to be 0, then you pay mana, then tap for improvise, then make sure any additional costs were properly paid. You could, for instance, use improvise to pay for a cost imposed by Thorn of Amethyst, but X will always be 0 when casting without paying it's mana cost.
May 8, 2017 5:53 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #6
Yes, it's true that improvise can be used along with alternative costs, but that's not the key issue here. When you're casting a spell with in the cost, the value of X isn't dependent on how much you pay. Like Neotrup said: first you choose the number, then you pay the cost. In this situation, however, you can't choose any number other than 0.
107.3b If a player is casting a spell that has an in its mana cost, the value of X isn't defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0. This doesn't apply to effects that only reduce a cost, even if they reduce it to zero.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #1
You can use double square brackets around a card's name to link it. It's the easiest way to make sure everyone reading your question understands what's going on: Whir of Invention, Torrential Gearhulk
Sadly, no. If you're casting a spell with some alternate cost ("without paying its mana cost" is a type of alternate cost), and that alternate cost doesn't actually have in it, then the value of X defaults to 0. You aren't able to choose any other number.
May 8, 2017 2:56 p.m.