Manifesting a creature that has a double face?
Asked by SwiftDeath 5 years agoI looked at the gatherer rules for manifest and it states that cards with double faces change the rules. It doesn't state if they are still 2/2's with no abilities or not from the rule change. If you manifest a double faced card for example Soul Summons manifesting a Delver of Secrets Flip is it a 2/2 or a 3/2 flying? The same question for Elbrus, the Binding Blade Flip.
From the FRF release notes:
Some older Magic sets feature double-faced cards, which have a Magic card face on each side rather than a Magic card face on one side and a Magic card back on the other. The rules for double-faced cards are changing slightly to account for the possibility that they are manifested. If a double-faced card is manifested, it will be put onto the battlefield face down. While face down, it can't transform. If the front face of the card is a creature card, you can turn it face up by paying its mana cost. If you do, its front face will be up. A double-faced card on the battlefield still can't be turned face down.
February 10, 2015 2:21 p.m.
I know but this still didn't resolve my answer. I stated I already read this and I still have concerns as to how the manifested card is treated. Is it saying it can't transform mean that it isn't an Insectile Aberration Flip and instead it is a 2/2 with no nam/abilities or is it a Insectile Aberration Flip that can't transform. Say we used a werewolf as an example. I manifest a Huntmaster of the Fells Flip does it enter as a Ravager of the Fells Flip and can't transform to it's front face or a 2/2 with no name/abilities?
February 10, 2015 2:36 p.m.
So you know: the "change" is that previously, the rules didn't allow for double-faced cards (DFCs) to be face down at all. In a way this made sense since no matter what they always have one of their two faces showing while they're on the battlefield.
However, when the manifest mechanic was being developed, the developers got to the problem of how it interacted with DFCs and they realized a few things. DFCs always have to be either in an opaque sleeve or represented in the deck by a checklist card with a normal Magic back. Making one face down is as easy as turning over the sleeved card or turning over the checklist card, which is already what you do when making a normal Magic card face down. Since an extremely simple solution to the problem already existed, the rules were updated to reflect it.
February 10, 2015 2:43 p.m.
It's face down. It doesn't have any of the characteristics printed on the card itself, and it isn't known to be a double-faced card. It's treated like any other face-down card, and it has the characteristics prescribed by the manifest effect. It isn't an Insectile Aberration Flip or a Delver of Secrets Flip or a Huntmaster of the Fells Flip or a Ravager of the Fells Flip.
However, the rules for manifest allow you to turn the card face-up if it's a creature card. So if you manifested Huntmaster of the Fells Flip, you'd have a 2/2 characteristicless creature that you could turn face-up for and have become a Huntmaster of the Fells Flip. It would then be treated as a normal DFC.
I know Matt Tabak spent a lot of time on this question. He often joked with me how much time was spent on an interaction that wasn't even in the set! In the end, Matt settled on the idea that cards have an unknown side while in the library and it was possible to manifest a double-faced card off the top of your library without revealing the nature of it being a double-faced card. "Are you happy?" he said to me one day, "We've made triple-faced cards."Source
February 10, 2015 2:47 p.m.
Just saw your second post.
"Transform" is specifically "change a double-faced card from one face to the other face". Turning something face up is a different kind of action completely.
A manifested face down Delver of Secrets Flip is a 2/2 with no abilities. Since it was manifested face down and the front face is a creature, you can turn it face up at any time by paying its mana cost - . If you do, it will then be a normal Delver of Secrets Flip that can transform if the trigger condition is met.
February 10, 2015 2:47 p.m.
ok, that is what was confusing me was the idea of a triple face being an imaginary back face to the card. Thank you for the help and sorry for being stubborn about it. I wish they would've left it so you could manifest to the other side of transform cards. Would've made them a viable option for casual play. I guess we will have to stick with the basic manifesting of Phyrexian Dreadnought then.
February 10, 2015 3:29 p.m.
Just to clarify, since the card was mentioned in the OP, Elbrus, the Binding Blade Flip can't be turned face up once it has been manifested, since it is an equipment card on its primary face, correct?
March 12, 2015 8:28 p.m.
@Gameitect: Don't post in old threads. If you have a question, post it in a new thread.