Madness plus Library of Leng

Asked by Zerafiall 5 years ago

Ok... Looking at, say Library of Leng, Fiery Temper, and Jaya Ballard, Task Mage.

I have the Library out and I declare that I'm activating one of Jaya's abilities (the second one to keep things clear). I choose targets and I calculate the cost then pay the cost, discarding Fiery Tempers. When that happens I want to pay the Madness cost.

A. When do I pay Madness? Is it triggered when Temper is in the graveyard (or on top of the library). Or, since it says 'If you discard' not 'When you discard', does that mean as I go to complete the payment of Jaya's ability, will it stop me and ask me for payment before I get priority then?

B. With Library, can I still discard, then Madness it, and put it on top again? Or will it go back to the yard after cast. (Wait... I think I just answered my own question. If it get's cast, it should resolve normally)

Zerafiall says... #1

Wait... I think I got this!

702.34. Madness702.34a Madness is a keyword that represents two abilities. The first is a static ability that functions while the card with madness is in a players hand. The second is a triggered ability that functions when the first ability is applied. Madness [cost] means If a player would discard this card, that player discards it, but may exile it instead of putting it into his or her graveyard and When this card is exiled this way, its owner may cast it by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost. If that player doesnt, he or she puts this card into his or her graveyard.702.34b Casting a spell using its madness ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2eg.

So... I declare I'm activating Jaya's Ability. I pay for Jaya with Temper. I MAY choose to let Temper be exiled. Jaya's Ability goes on the stack and the Madness ability goes on the stack. I may choose to pay the madness cost when it resolves, putting Temper on the stack.

Or... I MAY choose not to exile Temper and let it be discarded, putting it on top of my library or in the graveyard.

Right? ',: /

April 8, 2015 8:56 a.m.

nobu_the_bard says... Accepted answer #2

Library of Leng's current Oracle text for its second ability reads "If an effect causes you to discard a card, discard it, but you may put it on top of your library instead of into your graveyard." Jaya's abilities don't discard cards as an effect; they discard them as a COST. So they don't interact.

There's an Oracle ruling too, on the Library: "10/4/2004 - You can't use the Library of Leng ability to place a discarded card on top of your library when you discard a card as a cost, because costs aren't effects."

You can still use Madness though.

April 8, 2015 9:42 a.m.

Zerafiall says... #3

Ooooh... gotcha. Thank you, sir.

April 8, 2015 10:01 a.m.

This discussion has been closed