Lithoform Engine Rulings?
Asked by GenericToaster 3 years ago
Just in case you don't know, Lithoform Engine is a card spoiled from the new Zendikar Rising, and copies stuff.
My question, does it copy mana spent? I want to know specifically for any mythos card (such as Mythos of Nethroi ) or any x cost card
Straight from the rulings on Gatherer (Mythos of Nethroi):
"17/04/2020: If an effect allows you to cast a spell without paying its mana cost, you can’t choose to cast it and pay unless another rule or effect allows you to cast that spell for a cost. Similarly, you can’t waive a cost reduction unless that effect says you may."
September 8, 2020 3:27 a.m.
While it doesn't remember what mana was spent, it will remember things like X and what alternate cost was paid:
706.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object's characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The copiable values are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by its face-down status, and by "as . . . enters the battlefield" and "as . . . is turned face up" abilities that set power and toughness (and may also set additional characteristics). Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.
September 8, 2020 6:21 p.m.
In the future, please remember to hit the green "Mark as Answer" button to show your question has been resolved. Since this question has been answered for a number of days, I have gone ahead and marked an answer on your behalf.
September 12, 2020 12:36 a.m.
Littlekaz00 says... #5
Does this lithoform engine card work well the card spark double?
September 19, 2020 1:38 a.m.
Littlekaz00 says... #7
Spark double has the ability to copy a creature or planeswalker, if u use the ability to create a token card of that would u have to pay the mana of spark double to create the tokens?
September 19, 2020 1:47 a.m.
If you use the third ability of Lithoform Engine to copy Spark Double, you don't need to pay the cost of Spark Double again. Lithoform Engine's activation cost in just four mana and tapping for that activation, it doesn't require also paying the cost of the spell. The copy will resolve first, and can come into play as a copy of any planeswalker or creature you control. The original will then resolve, and can come into play as a copy of any planeswalker or creature you control, including the one that the token is copying, or a different one. It works the same as copying any other permanent spell.
September 19, 2020 1:58 a.m.
Littlekaz00 says... #10
If i were to make a token of all that glitters enchantment that has one white and i was playing it in a deck with cards that play devotion cards, does it count towards devotion?
September 19, 2020 3:12 a.m.
SynergyBuild says... #11
Littlekaz00 Token copies carry mana costs as a rule, so yes, this should keep devotion, but not mana spent, like addendum.
September 19, 2020 3:35 a.m.
Do note that the ability that copies permanent spells doesn't allow you to change the target like the other abilities do, so both All That Glitters will be on the same creature.
September 19, 2020 3:40 p.m.
Littlekaz00 says... #13
Oh i see, in that case does it double up the +1/+1 on the all that glitters enchanted creature or does it nullify and jus keep the same +1/+1?
September 19, 2020 6:01 p.m.
DragonSliver9001 says... #14
Littlekaz00 if there are 2, All That Glitters on the same creature, you get the effect of both. i'm not sure why you think you wouldn't.
September 19, 2020 6:10 p.m.
Littlekaz00 says... #15
Im still kinda new at this game, soo many rules, only been playing for maybe a year, like to have all the bases covered, im enjoying the game so far and i thank you all for your information, the game just keeps gettin better the more i know
September 19, 2020 6:33 p.m.
Littlekaz00 says... #16
Any ideas on how i can improve this deck i built from the ground up from my collection
September 19, 2020 7:08 p.m.
Littlekaz00 says... #17
strong textThassa's Oracle 1 Blue Alirios, Enraptured 1 Blue Callaphe, Beloved of the Sea 2 Blue Emry, Lurker of the Loch 1 Blue Laboratory Maniac 1 Blue Nadir Kraken 2 Blue Wavebreak Hippocamp 2 Blue Thassa, Deep-Dwelling 1 Blue Ethersworn Adjudicator 1 Blue Shoal Kraken 3 Blue Thryx, the Sudden Storm 2 Blue Scourge of Fleets 1 Blue Crashing Drawbridge 1 Leveler 1 Gyruda, Doom of Depths 1 Blue/Black Jace, Wielder of Mysteries 1 Blue Ominous Seas 3 Blue Ichthyomorphosis 1 Blue Thassa's Intervention 2 Blue Divination 1 Blue Jace's Triumph 2 Blue Amass the Components 1 Blue Kraken's Eye 1 Lithoform Engine 1 Nyx Lotus 1 Island 25 Land
September 19, 2020 7:09 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #18
Hey bud, you should probably make up a decklist on the site and then link it in a deck help post on the forum instead of asking in a rules question. That way you get the people who like to help people with their deck building instead of whoever happens to see your post on the comment stream in a week old answered question unrelated to your deck.
September 19, 2020 7:16 p.m.
Littlekaz00 says... #19
Still figuring this site out, think i have it now
September 19, 2020 8:18 p.m.
mongoose7101 says... #20
how does the engine work with mutate, lets say I have a dirge bat and I'm mutating a gemsmasher on it and I copy the spell with lithomancy engine. Would I get 2 mutation effects on the creature?
September 21, 2020 4:36 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #21
When you copy the Gemrazer (I assume? There is no "Gemsmasher".) the copy copies the choices made when casting it, so the fact that it was a mutate spell and the targets. The copy effect does not allow you to change targets.
Assuming everything resolves with no further interaction you will first mutate a token Gemrazer onto the Dirge Bat and you will destroy an artifact or enchantment and a creature. Then you will mutate on the normal Gemrazer and destroy two artifacts/enchantments and one creature.
You can put each morph over or under the creature it is morphing onto, so you will end up with either a Dirge Bat a token Gemrazer, or a non-token Gemrazer. Whichever the creature ends up actually being will have the abilities of the other two.
September 21, 2020 5:01 p.m.
mongoose7101 says... #22
thanks I asked at the local LGS and got the same answer
September 22, 2020 1:54 p.m.
can i copy a planeswalker with the third ability of lithoform engine
October 18, 2020 11:13 p.m.
Yes, but as all planeswalkers are legendary, the legend rule will make you choose to either keep the token or the card, not both.
October 18, 2020 11:25 p.m.
Seedneil - Please ask a new question rather than tack your question onto an existing one.
To answer your question, yes you can copy a Planeswalker spell as it is a permanent. However, for most Planeswalkers, that is not going to help you much because they are legendary.
Your copy will resolve while the main Walker is on the stack. Since the stack is not empty, you will not be able to activate the Copy Planeswalker’s abilities.
The original Planeswalker spell will then resolve, so you will have two of the same legendary planeswalkers on the field. One must be sent to graveyard as a state-based action, which happens before loyalty abilities can be activated.
So, you’ll only end up with one usable planeswalker.
(There are exceptions, such as Teferi, Master of Time where you could activate at instant speed; or the new Jace, where you could copy it and end up with two non-legendaries and one legendary, rather than just one legendary and one non-legendary.)
SynergyBuild says... #1
No, just like with adamant cards, it won't remember the mana spent in copies.
September 8, 2020 3:06 a.m.