Initiative-Starfield-Surge combo?
Asked by TheVectornaut 8 years ago
I'm sure everyone knows about the Legion's Initiative+Warstorm Surge combo, but I cooked up something a little different and just want to make sure that it works. So instead of using Initiative to blink proper creatures, my deck uses it to blink enchantments that have become creatures because of Starfield of Nyx. Say for example, I have 6 enchantments- Legion's Initiative, Warstorm Surge, Starfield of Nyx, and 3 Martial Law. If I use the Legion's Initiative ability to blink all of my enchantments (creatures) during my first main phase and then the other 5 return, will they be seen by Warstorm Surge as creatures since Starfield of Nyx enters simultaneously]]? Additionally, can I then attack with the enchantments (assuming the opponent survived the Surge) since they should have haste from the Initiative? If the consensus is that these things don't work, I'll probably just shift the deck to mono-white buffs.
Rules Citation:
611.2e. If a resolving spell or ability both puts a nontoken permanent onto the battlefield and creates a continuous effect stating that the permanent is [characteristic], that continuous effect applies simultaneously with the permanent entering the battlefield. This characteristic is usually a color or a creature type. If the continuous effect says the permanent becomes [characteristic] or gains [an ability], that effect applies after the permanent is on the battlefield.
Example: Arbiter of the Ideal puts an artifact, creature, or land card onto the battlefield and says, in part, That permanent is an enchantment in addition to its other types. An ability that triggers whenever an enchantment enter s the battlefield would trigger. The permanent doesnt enter the battlefield and then become an enchantment.
August 12, 2015 5:55 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #3
@BlueScope: That rule applies only when the spell or ability that returns the permanents is the same effect that defines their characteristics. In this case, Legion's Initiative's ability is what's returning the permanents and Starfield of Nyx is what's defining their characteristics.
Also, note that Starfield of Nyx does not animate itself. It specifies "each other non-Aura enchantment you control." Therefore, it will remain on the battlefield and won't be exiled.
Provided that at least five other enchantments are entering the battlefield, they should enter as enchantment creatures and each trigger Warstorm Surge's ability.
August 12, 2015 6:45 a.m.
@ Epochalyptik: I did read the part about it applying as part of the same effect, but I understood it more as an example than as a requirement - as in, if an effect does both, it happens because [underlying set of rules]. If one effect does one part and another the other part, it happens because [same underlying rules]...
The part about Starfield of Nyx not animating itself I missed, though, so it's only halfway relevant anyway - or when you play a second copy of it!
August 12, 2015 9:46 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
Rules that define a scope of applicability are very specific to that scope. 611.2e applies only to effects that both (1) cause something to enter the battlefield and (2) define its characteristics.
BlueScope says... #1
All permanents entering the battlefield at the same time see each other entering, and Starfield of Nyx' animation changes the characteristic of those cards at all times while on the battlefield, so there's no time when your returned enchantments aren't creatures. Warstorm Surge will trigger for each enchantment (re-)entering the battlefield and deal damage accordingly. The delayed triggered ability of Legion's Initiative will give them haste as well.
It sure sounds like a hack, so you might get some dirty looks from people... but as far as the rules are concerned, you're good!
Also, note that this works with Furnace of Rath-like effects very nicely.
August 12, 2015 5:53 a.m.