How is it possible for me to use Zedruu the Greathearted to donate Sky Swallower and/or Transcendence without impacting me negatively?
Asked by theindigoeffect 7 years ago
Transcendence and Sky Swallower are among some of the cards that were suggested for a Zedruu the Greathearted edh deck, but I want to make sure that I don't defeat myself while using this deck.
Also, when donating Illusions of Grandeur, how long do I have to wait to get +20 life before donating the aforementioned card to an opponent?
Thanks!
theindigoeffect says... #2
Wow, is it even viable to create a deck where you donate less-than-desirable permanents to opponents? Even popular suggestions like Steel Golem and Taniwha have state triggers that I wouldn't be able to pass on to my opponents. Are there any cards that I could use?
Based on your explanation, it seems pointless to even include Illusions of Grandeur in my deck. I originally thought I could let the ability resolve, gain 20 life, donate it to my opponent and when Illusions of Grandeur is destroyed, my opponent would lose 20 life instead of me. Instead, I would gain and lose 20 life, regardless of who has possession of Illusions of Grandeur when it is destroyed.
Based on the cards that are commonly suggested for donation, there must be a huge misconception concerning how donation actually works.
August 15, 2016 11:23 p.m.
With illusions of grandeur you play it gain 20 life then give it to your opponent and when it leaves the battlefield your opponent will lose 20 life
August 15, 2016 11:31 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #4
Let's be clear:
You can't donate Sky Swallower with no downside, as per Epochalyptik's explanation.
You can donate Transcendence, but only if you already have less than 20 life when it enters the battlefield. If you have 20 or more life then the 2nd ability will trigger immediately and you'll be screwed.
Steel Golem will work just fine. A card's abilities are only talking to its controller, unless they say otherwise. Donating the Golem to an opponent will mean that opponent can't cast creature spells.
Taniwha also works just fine. Its ability triggers at the beginning of its controller's upkeep. If you donate it to another player then their lands will phase out every other turn.
Illusions of Grandeur is also good to go. Epochalyptik's explanation is telling you "yes, that trick works".
August 15, 2016 11:34 p.m.
theindigoeffect says... #5
I guess I need to see what a functional Zedruu the Greathearted deck actually looks like: if it's not feasible to develop a deck based around donating bad permanents to opponents, would you mind recommending a viable Zedruu the Greathearted deck so I can get an idea of what actually works?
August 15, 2016 11:36 p.m.
theindigoeffect says... #6
Okay, thanks: I guess I'll have to re-evaluate the cards that I've chosen.
August 15, 2016 11:39 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #7
I'd like to point out that you can, in response to Transcendence's game-loss trigger, donate Transcendence to your opponent. They'll most likely also have at least 20 life so the game-loss trigger will happen for them as well and resolve before yours does. If 1v1, you win, if multiplayer, at least you took someone with you.
August 16, 2016 11:27 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
That's actually incorrect.
603.8. Some triggered abilities trigger when a game state (such as a player controlling no permanents of a particular card type) is true, rather than triggering when an event occurs. These abilities trigger as soon as the game state matches the condition. Theyll go onto the stack at the next available opportunity. These are called state triggers. (Note that state triggers arent the same as state-based actions.) A state-triggered ability doesn't trigger again until the ability has resolved, has been countered, or has otherwise left the stack. Then, if the object with the ability is still in the same zone and the game state still matches its trigger condition, the ability will trigger again.
It's the same permanent, even after its donated, so it's still tied to the instance of the ability that triggered for you.
August 16, 2016 12:14 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #9
Oh ok. Well my Zedruu playing friend is going to have his heart crushed now.
Epochalyptik says... #1
You can't use Zedruu the Greathearted to donate Sky Swallower or Transcendence with no downside. Remember that Zedruu the Greathearted's ability can only target permanents, so the object you're donating needs to be on the battlefield at the time you activate Zedruu the Greathearted's ability.
Sky Swallower has an ETB ability, which triggers as Sky Swallower enters the battlefield. If it enters under your control, you will control the ability. Donating Sky Swallower while the ability is on the stack will not change control of the ability.
Transcendence has a state trigger. When you control Transcendence, its ability will trigger the moment you have 20 or more life. That ability will remain on the stack until it's countered, exiled, or resolved. If you still control Transcendence and its ability is not on the stack, but you still have 20 or more life, its ability will trigger again. As in the Sky Swallower example, you can't change control of an ability on the stack simply by donating its source; you'll still control the ability.
As with Sky Swallower, Illusions of Grandeur has an ETB ability. It triggers when Illusions of Grandeur enters the battlefield, and you can donate Illusions of Grandeur immediately. You can even respond to its ability by activating Zedruu the Greathearted (because, as we discussed, you'll still control the ability even if control of the source changes). You could also choose to wait until after the ability resolves or until some later point in the game, but those decisions come with increased risk of someone interfering with your donate ability.
August 15, 2016 10:41 p.m.