How does Liege of the Tangle interact with Awaken cards?
Asked by Yesterday 6 years ago
I'm not that great with replacement effects.
If I successfully resolve Liege of the Tangle's ability and put an awakening counter on one of my lands so it becomes an 8/8 creature, then I resolve Natural Affinity, that same land becomes a 2/2 creature until end of turn, right?
If (ignoring Natural Affinity for this example) I were to resolve a Rush of Ice which has been cast for its Awaken cost and target that same land, would it indefinitely become a base 0/0 creature despite the fact that it still has the awakening counter on it?
It's the "for as long as is has an awakening counter on it" that's throwing me off a little here.
Rhadamanthus says... #2
Oh also, these aren't replacement effects, they're just characteristic-changing effects trying to apply in the same layer.
April 4, 2018 11:22 a.m.
Thanks! And right, yes, I did mean layers as opposed to replacement effects. You have already answered my question but could I ask for a little bit more info on those examples where the most recently applied layer doesn't take precedence over another?
April 4, 2018 11:25 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #4
Sure. It has to do with something called a "dependency". Say there are two effects, A and B, that want to apply in the same layer. If A does something that either changes B's effect, changes the set of objects that B would apply to, or changes whether or not B even exists, then B is "dependent" on A. In this case, A is always applied first, then B (if it still exists), regardless of which one is newer.
The most commonly used example of this is Blood Moon and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Because Blood Moon's type changing ability (setting to a basic land type without saying "in addition to its other types") also has the side-effect of removing all of the land's other printed abilities, applying it would cause Urborg's type-changing ability to stop existing. This means Urborg's effect is dependent on Blood Moon's effect, so Blood Moon is always applied first. Nonbasic lands are Mountains and Urborg's printed ability doesn't do anything.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #1
In your Natural Affinity example, the awakened lands will go from base 8/8 to base 2/2 and then back to base 8/8 after your turn ends. In your Rush of Ice example, the land will go from base 8/8 to base 0/0 and stay there. If you want it to go back to base 8/8 then you have to use Liege of the Tangle's ability on it again.
If multiple effects are trying to change a card's characteristics in the same layer or sublayer - here, we're looking at the base P/T-setting sublayer of the general P/T layer - then the most recently created one wins out (there are some exceptions but they don't apply here so let's not get into them right now). The new effect doesn't end the older effect, it just applies over top of it. If the new effect ends then the older effect will take precedence again.
The "for as long as it has an awakening counter on it" defines the duration of Liege of the Tangle's effect, just as "until end of turn" defines the duration of Natural Affinity's effect. Awaken on Rush of Ice and other cards doesn't have a defined duration, so it just stays in effect either until the card leaves the battlefield or until some other newer effect overwrites it.
April 4, 2018 11:21 a.m.