Exquisite Archangel and me dying at the same time
Asked by koylucumert 7 years ago
So for example my opponent played a card that destroyed my angel and dealt lethal damage to me (these are from the same ability/card resolving) what would happen
Rhadamanthus says... #2
You also get to choose whether or not Exquisite Archangel goes to the graveyard or to exile, which can make a big difference. This is addressed by a Rulings Note in the Archangel's Gatherer entry
2/9/2017 If Exquisite Archangel is dealt lethal damage at the same time that you're dealt damage that brings your life total to 0 or less, its effect applies and your life total becomes equal to your starting life total. You choose whether Exquisite Archangel is moved to exile or to your graveyard.
February 1, 2017 12:42 p.m.
ticked-off-squirrel says... #3
I got a question. what if some player has Pestilence and does enough damage to kill you and the angel at the same time?
February 1, 2017 9:33 p.m.
@ticked-off-squirrel: It's the very same situation with the very same outcome, assuming the original question was talking about the creature being destroyed by being dealt lethal damage. I'm not aware of a card that destroys creatures and deals players damage, which is why I'd assume that. Am I missing something?
February 2, 2017 2:50 a.m.
Panzerforge says... #5
So... your opponent has 2 life left... you could attack with a 7/7 Sliver with trample and provoke (not unusual). You force them to block with their Exquisite Archangel, the Angel takes lethal damage, the player takes 2 damage... and the Angel would still save them from death, despite being trampled?
Fascinating. That's a much better card than I had first given it credit.
February 2, 2017 6:18 a.m.
@Panzerforge: You can make that example much simpler - one player attacks their opponent (who is at 2 life) with Duskdale Wurm, the opponent controls an Exquisite Archangel. If the Wurm attacks, no matter what the opponent does in terms of blocking, they will be back at their starting life. The only difference blocking makes is that if the Angel is blocking, their controller may put them in the graveyard or exile, instead of having to put it into exile.
Of course, if you were looking for justifications of the card, keep in mind that generally, no matter how many creatures that player attacks with (say, 3 million 7/7 Trample creatures), the opponent will not lose the game, and will be back at their starting life total.
Of course, that only works if none of those creatures have Double Strike, and either all or none of those creatures have First Strike.
I still think that outside of maybe EDH, it's not a particularily playable card, simply due to the high mana investment... for that kind of mana, you can get a reuseable Platinum Angel (of course, that won't survive the Provoke scenario, but most others), Platinum Emperion (if you're actually concerned about your life total), and for more or less the same one-shot effect as with Exquisite Archangel, Angel's Grace is much more affordable while being less weak to removal.
It's certainly better than a Duskdale Wurm, though ;)
February 2, 2017 8:26 a.m.
ticked-off-squirrel says... #7
BlueScope well there is the card Certain Death that kills a creature and makes it's controller bleed 2 so that is one card that can destroy a creature and "deal damage" (it's not damage it's bleeding since the card says "it's controller loses 2 life")
February 2, 2017 9:47 a.m.
@ticked-off-squirrel: Ah, you're right. As you said, in your example it's not dealing damage, but there are some examples (some of which I played myself very enthusiastically, such as Agonizing Demise).
Whether it's lethal damage or a destroy effect destroying the creature actually makes a difference, which is something I initially overlooked and koylucumert therefore might be interested in: For example, if you're at 2 life, control an Exquisite Archangel and your opponent casts Cinder Cloud, your Angel will be destroyed (as in put in the graveyard by the effect, not by SBAs), then deal 5 damage to you. There is no Angel on the battlefield anymore at the time the damage is dealt, so it's replacement effect won't work and you will end up at -3 life.
February 2, 2017 10:20 a.m.
Not sure why I chose two different cards in the example above... both Agonizing Demise (if kicked) and Cinder Cloud would work in the same way here.
BlueScope says... Accepted answer #1
Neither you nor your creature dies before the respective SBA (state-based action) is checked. The SBAs relevant to your case are likely these:
These are resolved in the following way:
This means that after everything's been dealt an abundance of damage, you and your creature would die due to SBAs. Because at the time those SBAs would act, your creature is still on the battlefield, it's replacement effect will replace you losing the game, exiling itself, and you get to keep playing.
February 1, 2017 10:48 a.m.