Elite Arcanist ability with Perplexing Chimera
Asked by BringinIT001 7 years ago
So let's say I casted an Elite Arcanist and exiled a Retraction Helix for it's ability. Then, I cast a Perplexing Chimera and use it to take control of another permanent. Could I use the retraction helix copy to target my perplexing chimera so that I may return it to my hand? Or could my opponent then exchange the chimera for my retraction helix copy?
TheRedMage says... Accepted answer #2
Let's say you control Elite Arcanist "imprinted" with Retraction Helix and a Leatherback Baloth you took from your opponent. Your opponent controls the Perplexing Chimera which you exchanged for their baloth.
You activate Elite Arcanist, which makes a copy of Retraction Helix and casts it. Retraction Helix kinda works in two steps - first you target a creature (usually one you control) to gain the "
: Return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand" ability. Then, you can activate the ability on the creature that gained it, and bounce something.
So, you cast the copy of Retraction Helix, targeting Leatherback Baloth. At this stage, your opponent can elect to exchange control of Perplexing Chimera with control of Retraction Helix. If they do, you get the chimera, and they get to possibly target another of their creatures with the Helix, if they have any. If so that creature will gain ": Return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand" until the end of turn. If they don't, Leatherback Baloth will gain that ability.
If Baloth gains the ability, you can tap it to activate the bounce ability targeting the Chimera. Abilities are not spells, and activating an ability does not count as casting a spell, so Perplexing Chimera won't trigger at all at this stage, and you will be able to successfully return it to your hand.
April 30, 2016 11:53 a.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #3
Okay, so a couple of things are happening here, and I'm going to try to sort them out.
Stack-
Opponent's spell
Perplexing Chimera trigger
Activate Elite Arcanist, targeting Perplexing Chimera.
So basically, the ability on Perplexing Chimera is a triggered ability, meaning that there is still time after the switch ability is on the stack in which you both control the Chimera and ability of the Chimera is on the stack. So in response to your Chimera triggering, you can give it the Retraction Helix and your opponent cannot steal it due to you still controling the Chimera.
However, if you bounce the Chimera in response to the exchange, the Chimera won't be on the field when the ability resolves and the exchange won't be made. If you wait until the exchange is made, they now have a Chimera with Helix on it for a turn. So having a third creature to target with Helix allows you to both exchange the spell and bounce the Chimera after the swap happens.
It looks like you have a little confusion on what Chimera can take based on the wording of your post. Perplexing Chimera specifies spells. Spells are any card (or copy) currently on the stack.
For example, I cast Lightning Bolt. Chimera lets you exchange it and change the Bolt's targets.
If someone casts Tarmogoyf, you can exchange Chimera. They get Chimera, and you get the Tarmogoyf.
Someone has a Storm Crow on the battlefield. You cannot exchange Chimera for our lord and saviour.
Someone activates thalid. You cannot exchange control of the ability and Chimera due to abilities not being spells.
I hope this can help you learn more about Magic!
Gidgetimer says... #1
So there are so many places that there could be misconceptions in this question that I am just going to go through what could possibly happen. Let me know if I lose you anywhere if I don't address the question you have.
You cast Elite Arcanist exiling Retraction Helix. Because Elite Arcanist has summoning sickness, you can not activate his ability to create and cast a copy of Retraction Helix this turn.
On a later turn you cast Perplexing Chimera. His ability does not allow you to immediate exchange control of it and another permanent. You get the option to exchange control of any spell when your opponent casts that spell later in the game. If you exchange control with a permanent spell them you will get the permanent that spell becomes.
Retraction Helix does not bounce anything by itself. You cast it on a creature and then the creature can tap this turn to return a non-land permanent to its owner's hand.
If you make and cast the copy of Retraction Helix after you have already given control of the Chimera to your opponent then they can exchange control of the spell and the Chimera.
If you copy and cast Retraction Helix targeting the Chimera before the exchange and try to bounce it in response to it's trigger then the exchange won't happen (if either part of an exchange becomes invalid the exchange doesn't happen). After the exchange your opponent controls the Chimera and therefore the ability so you will not be able to activate it.
If the spell you are trying to exchange is a creature and you want to copy and cast Retraction Helix on it to bounce the Chimera. You will have to do so after the exchange and will likely not be able to activate the ability because of summoning sickness.
If you copy and cast Retraction Helix on some third creature unaffected by summoning sickness that you have before the exchange and then bounce the Chimera after the exchange. Then your opponent will not be able to steal the bounce ability because the Chimera does not trigger on abilities.
April 30, 2016 11:41 a.m.