Does this combo work?

Asked by oliveoilonyaasscureshemorrhoid 1 year ago

I'm trying to create infinite mana with Muldrotha, the Gravetide + Ashnod's Altar + Thousand-Year Elixir/Lightning Greaves + Liliana, Heretical Healer  Flip + Selvala, Heart of the Wilds/Krosan Restorer ( + Animate Dead/Necromancy and Clever Impersonator/Phyrexian Metamorph/Evil Twin in the graveyard)

How it works: Activate Selvala/Restorer's mana ability with the help of Greaves/Elixir, activate Altar targeting Selvala/Restorer (which causes Liliana to flip), activate Liliana targeting Selvala/Restorer, cast Animate/Necromancy targeting Impersonator/Metamorph (targeting Muldrotha, then keep the cloned Muldrotha), cast Liliana with Muldrotha, cast Animate/Necromancy with Muldrotha (targeting Muldrotha, keeping the real Muldrotha), repeat.

Does this work?

I don’t see where you’re generating such mana to initially get this rolling.

At minimum you’ll have mana to work with after activating whatever creature ability you have to generate mana, and sacc’ing to Ashnod's Altar (and saccing the token Lili makes). You’ll use of it for Animate Dead on one of the clones, and with remaining, you still have to cast lili from your graveyard. You’ll need from an outside source to Cast Lili, along with another from an outside source to cast Necromancy . If you manage to do that, you’ll be in a deficit of 3. Unless I’m missing something, you’re losing out on mana here.

April 24, 2019 12:15 a.m.

Missed the threshold part of Krosan Restorer . Assuming it’s active throughout, your generate an initial , and repeating everything I said about, you’d have to pay a total of ( Animate Dead , Necromancy , Liliana, Heretical Healer  Flip), resulting in still a deficit of mana.

April 24, 2019 12:18 a.m.

Sorry for triple post:

only way I can see this working is by just using Selvala, Heart of the Wilds and, with one to initialize it, generating 6 mana of whatever colors (off of Muldrotha, the Gravetide ). Combine that with the you’d get from Ashnod's Altar , you would be able to net the necessary colored mana here and repeat it.

April 24, 2019 12:23 a.m.

@Raging_Squiggle Two questions. With Selvala generating a net 5 mana from the activation, the combo would work, so wouldn't Restorer work too if Gaea's Cradle / Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun (because Restorer/Muldrotha/Liliana generates the ? Second, how would the Animate/Necromancy loop work exactly? To sum up, activate Selvala (net 5), sac Selvala and Liliana's zombie (net 9), cast Liliana with Muldrotha (net 6), cast Animate with Muldrotha targeting a clone (net 4), then what? I could keep the clone so I can cast a creature and enchantment again but the Animate would still be attached, so is the only way to have both Necromancy and Animate in the yard, or is there another way like alternating between casting clones and enchantments with each new Muldrotha or something?

April 24, 2019 1:31 a.m.

Kogarashi says... Accepted answer #5

Let's see if I've got your initial plan right.

Assuming Thousand-Year Elixir is on the battlefield, allowing you to activate creature abilities the turn they ETB.

  1. Activate Selvala, Heart of the Wilds for some number of mana equal to the greatest power you have on the board (if with Muldrotha, that'd be 6). Or use Krosan Restorer to untap 1 or 3 lands (depending on if you have threshold), where at least one of those lands taps for more than 1 mana.

  2. Activate Ashnod's Altar , sacrificing Selvala or Restorer. Gain , trigger Liliana, Heretical Healer  Flip to flip.

  3. Activate Liliana, Defiant Necromancer 's -X ability, targeting your newly-dead mana creature. Here's the first hangup. The -X ability says "nonlegendary creature card," and Selvala is legendary, so she can't work in this interaction. So it has to be Restorer. This activation puts Liliana in the graveyard due to lack of loyalty.

  4. You didn't mention it, but presumably you activate Krosan Restorer again for mana, then sacrifice it to Ashnod's Altar for 2 more. I'm ignoring Selvala now because Liliana can't get her back.

  5. Cast Animate Dead or Necromancy on a clone creature and have it copy Muldrotha, the Gravetide , forcing you to sacrifice one due to the legend rule. You keep the clone and send the original Muldrotha to the graveyard.

  6. Using Muldrotha, the Gravetide 's ability, you cast Liliana, Heretical Healer  Flip from the graveyard. Then you cast a second Animate Dead or Necromancy (because the first is still enchanting your Muldrotha clone), getting the original Muldrotha back from the graveyard, triggering the legend rule again, which flips Liliana again. You keep the original Muldrotha to "reset" the "one permanent of each type" restriction.

  7. You -X Liliana to get Restorer back, putting Liliana back in the graveyard. Go to step 4, alternating Muldrotha and clone as necessary.

Am I reading this right?

In order for this to work, you can't use Selvala, Heart of the Wilds because it's legendary and Liliana, Defiant Necromancer specifically targets nonlegendary creature cards. For Krosan Restorer to be a good fit, you'll probably want to be at threshold (to hit three lands instead of one), and you'll want those lands to produce lots of mana, like the Gaea's Cradle and Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun you mentioned later, with enough creatures to make it functional.

With so many moving parts, it runs the risk of being extremely easy to disrupt if your opponents have answers, but as far as I can see it functions aside from Selvala being a bad fit, assuming your lands are producing enough mana (and it should be mentioned that the aforementioned choice lands only produce green mana; you're going to need lots of black as well because Liliana and Animate/Necromancy is going to be alone, with a fourth if you have to cast both enchantments before you can get mana on the loop again.

April 24, 2019 10:25 a.m.

Krosan Restorer would work fine if you have lands that generate more than 1 mana. That wasn’t included in the initial question so I didn’t address it. And I was incorrect about Selvala, Heart of the Wilds being usable since Lili can only get non-legendary creatures.

A Crypt of Agadeem would work nicely in the event you wanted to get this combo going, assuming you have enough creatures in your graveyard.

And if we’re saying Gaea's Cradle is an affordable option, then a much easier infinite combo for Muldrotha would be to use Lion's Eye Diamond , Animate Dead / Necromancy , and Phantasmal Image .

A budget combo could be Palinchron + Phantasmal Image + Animate Dead + Dance of the Dead + a sac outlet

April 24, 2019 12:20 p.m.

DivineMeme says... #7

I randomly stumbled upon this and I just want to say you cant clone muldrotha because its legendary, although I didnt read 100% of what's going on with this because in a normal match you likely wouldnt have the necessary mana or the cards out to do this very reliably but please do correct me if i'm wrong!

October 8, 2019 6:08 a.m.

Kogarashi says... #8

DivineMeme, there's no rule against cloning legendary permanents. The "legend rule" simply says that if you have two or more legendary permanents with the same name, you must choose one to keep and the rest are put into their owners' graveyards.

So I could cast Clone copying Muldrotha, the Gravetide just fine. I would then have two permanents named "Muldrotha, the Gravetide," so game rules would require me to choose one of them to keep and the other would go to my graveyard.

October 8, 2019 10:23 a.m.

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