Does persist combo win at instant speed?

Asked by PotatoeWizard 7 years ago

The combo is of course Melira, Sylvok Outcast/Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit along with Murderous Redcap and Viscera Seer for infinite damage. Can 2 Auriok Champion negate the damage or does the combo win at instant speed without any lifegain triggers resolving? Thanks

TheFoilAjani says... #1

As far as I can tell, the Champions will protect you. This is how I think it would work out

  1. Etb Redcap. Assuming you control Champs and it's your turn, your triggers go on first.

  2. Sac, etb. Champs then Cap.

  3. The abilities are now like this (top to bottom); damage, life, damage, life.

So effectively, the only way they win is if you are at 2 life and they can Hit you with Redcap before your lifegain resolves.

I'm sure Squiggle or Epoch (for example) can be a little more in depth, but I think that is how it works.

June 10, 2016 12:19 a.m.

Boza says... #2

If it is the Melira deck's turn and the opponent controls 2 Auriok Champion, the stack looks like this:

Top
Auriok Champion trigger
Auriok Champion trigger
Murderous Redcap trigger
Bottom

That means that you cannot win through their lifegain, since the active player's triggers are put on the stack first and resolve last. If it was the Auriok Champion's player turn, the stack would look like this:

Top
Murderous Redcap trigger
Auriok Champion trigger
Auriok Champion trigger
Bottom

As TheFoilAjani above says, Unless they have 2 or less life, Murderous Redcap triggers will not be enough.

June 10, 2016 3:52 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #3

Note that if it's the Auriok Champion's player's turn, the combo player can win.

When Murderous Redcap enters the battlefield, the Auriok Champions' ability will be put onto the stack first. Murderous Redcap's ability will be put onto the stack above it. Once the Murderous Redcap's ability resolves, the combo player can activate Viscera Seer's ability to sacrifice Murderous Redcap, causing its persist ability to trigger. You resolve the persist trigger, returning Murderous Redcap to the battlefield and starting the process over.

Basically, all the combo player has to do is activate Viscera Seer's ability before the Auriok Champions' ability resolves. Although this will keep generating Auriok Champion triggers, none of them will resolve because Murderous Redcap's ability and Viscera Seer's ability will just alternate on top of the stack. The Auriok Champion player will eventually lose because none of the lifegain abilities are resolving.

June 10, 2016 7:27 a.m.

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