Do "this turn" abilities apply to things that happened before the ability was triggered?
Asked by kellerke83 6 years ago
Lets say I have a Sphinx's Tutelage and a Mindcrank on the board, I draw for turn and force player "A" to mill 2. Lets assume they do not trigger the repeat process and the turn continues.
I then play Duskmantle Guildmage and also activate its first ability, "whenever a card is put into an opponent's graveyard from anywhere this turn, that player loses 1 life."
Since the ability says "WHENEVER" I am assuming this ability will NOT trigger a loss of life as it was not active when the card was put into the graveyard by the sphinx's tutelage trigger.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #2
You are correct, triggered abilities like that will only trigger if they existed when the event that triggers them occurred.
June 20, 2017 8:51 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #3
No, it won't trigger for things that happened earlier in the turn.
An ability that starts with "when", "whenever", or "at" is a triggered ability. It will trigger whenever the given event happens, but it has to actually exist at that time in order to trigger at all. A triggered ability doesn't look back in time for events that happened before it existed.
June 20, 2017 8:52 p.m.
Shadeslinger says... #5
The way Guildmage's ability is worded it should indeed activate for cards put into the graveyard prior to it entering the battlefield. If the card was put into the graveyard on my turn and I play Duskmantle Guildmage on my turn...its still the same turn. It should indeed look back to check if any card was placed into the graveyard THIS turn.
June 3, 2018 1:52 a.m.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #6
Shadeslinger, firstly, this thread is almost a year old.
Second, that's not how it works at all. The guildmage sets up a delayed triggered ability that lasts the remainder of the turn. It triggers whenever its condition is met, and has its listed effect. It cannot trigger for past events, because it didn't exist at that point.
June 3, 2018 2:12 a.m.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #8
Except that it is.
If I were to tell you "Whenever you go to the store today, pick up some milk." that wouldn't cause you to retroactively pick up milk from when you went to the store earlier today. Not unless one of us is some kind of crazy time wizard.
Secondly, everything written in an MTG card's rules text is to be interpreted within the context of the rules of the game, which say:
- 603.7. An effect may create a delayed triggered ability that can do something at a later time. A delayed triggered ability will contain “when,” “whenever,” or “at,” although that word won’t usually begin the ability.
- 603.7a Delayed triggered abilities are created during the resolution of spells or abilities, as the result of a replacement effect being applied, or as a result of a static ability that allows a player to take an action. A delayed triggered ability won’t trigger until it has actually been created, even if its trigger event occurred just beforehand. Other events that happen earlier may make the trigger event impossible.
July 4, 2018 3:39 p.m.
Shadeslinger says... #9
Once again I defer to my prior statement. Regardless of the rules (and I never said the rules did not apply) the card is not worded that way. A turn is a turn is a turn. The rules are inconsistent with the wording. And there are instances where triggered abilities do look back to see if something happened this turn. The rules are at times inconsistent. We are just going to have to agree to disagree.
July 15, 2018 1:14 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #10
@Shadeslinger: You're thinking of an ability that checks a condition regarding whether or not something happened earlier in the turn, like the Morbid ability on Reaper from the Abyss. In that case, the triggering event for that ability is the end step starting, not the creature dying. The ability only has to exist at the time the end step starts rather than when the creature died in order to trigger properly.
There are certain types of triggered abilities that "look back in time", but it's a limited list: leaves the battlefield, leaves a graveyard, goes from a public zone to the hand or library, phases out, becomes unattached, a player loses control of something, a player loses the game, a player planeswalks. Also, the extent to which they look back is limited to checking whether or not the ability existed at the moment immediately before the triggering event (see 603.10 for more details).
The rules aren't inconsistent with the wording of the card. Together, the specific wording of rule 603.7a quoted above and the specific wording of Duskmantle Guildmage's ability are exactly why it works the way we've explained. I get the feeling you still won't be convinced, but I just want to make it clear for anyone else who may be reading this.
Pieguy396 says... Accepted answer #1
Right, effects that say "this turn" or "until end of turn" last from when their ability resolves to when you enter your cleanup phase. Similarly, Overrun won't give +3/+3 and trample to any creatures that enter the battlefield after it resolves, only the ones that were already there.
June 20, 2017 8:48 p.m.