Do Conspiracy and Vildin-Pack Alpha interact?
Asked by chosenone124 6 years ago
Suppose I have Conspiracy naming Werewolves and a Vildin-Pack Alpha Flip.
Case 1: I cast Formless Nurturing, manifesting the double faced card Duskwatch Recruiter Flip. Can I flip it with the Alpha trigger?
Case 2: Same as case 1, but with Den Protector
Case 3: I drop a double faced card from my hand to the battlefield with Illusionary Mask. Can I flip it with the Alpha trigger?
Bonus: If I have Panharmonicon and I play a morph card or a double faced werewolf, can I transform it twice?
In case 1-3 you cannot transform a face-down creature, so the ability will trigger and do nothing. You also cannot turn a double-faced card face-down, but you can manifest it face-down.
As for the bonus question, yes, it will trigger twice and you can transform it twice, resulting in it being on it's front side, and something like Huntmaster of the Fells Flip triggering both it's sides. The relevant rule here is 701.26f, as quoted by Dracoson. It says that you don't transform the creature if one of it's own abilities tries to transform it. Because Vildin-Pack Alpha Flip is the source of the ability, rather than the transforming creature, it can still transform the creature any number of times.
May 7, 2017 1:41 p.m.
chosenone124 says... #3
What would happen if in case 1, in response to the Vilden Pack Alpha trigger, I turn it face up with the manifest effect? Would I be able to flip Duskwatch to it's back half?
May 7, 2017 7:19 p.m.
Yes, that would work because it will be a double faced card by the time it tries to transform.
Dracoson says... #1
In regards to cases 1-3:
701.26b Although transforming a permanent uses the same physical action as turning a permanent face up or face down, they are different game actions. Abilities that trigger when a permanent is turned face down wont trigger when that permanent transforms, and so on.
Basically, they don't work together. While Conspiracy will give the face-down cards the Werewolf subtype, and the trigger from Vildin-Pack Alpha Flip will happen, it will not do anything.
As to the Bonus question:
701.26f If an activated or triggered ability of a permanent that isnt a delayed triggered ability of that permanent tries to transform it, the permanent transforms only if it hasnt transformed since the ability was put onto the stack. If a delayed triggered ability of a permanent tries to transform that permanent, the permanent transforms only if it hasnt transformed since that delayed triggered ability was created. In either case, if the permanent has already transformed, the instruction to transform is ignored. This is a change from previous rules
Basically, while the trigger will go again, if you choose to transform it, the subsequent triggers won't do anything
May 7, 2017 10:33 a.m.