deathouch + firststrike - multiple creatures blocking it.

Asked by oltskul 2 years ago

hi,

from earilier questions, we now know, that creature with DT and FS/DS is unstopable against one creature without FS/DS....

bud how does First strike works against two or more enemies?

example:ME: Greater Basilisk equiped with Viridian Claw and Greatsword making it quite beast: 7/5 with first strike and deathtouch....

Few scenarios now:A) George: he got Wall of Vines Wall of Vines and arc-mrunner blocking my basilisk in that ortder.

Does my Bassilisk still deal first strike to second wall and third Arc Runner? - Thus killing it all with FS, or my bassilisk dies, because is killed by Arc Runner?- does FS counts for every creature blocking it? or the very first creature?

B) Tom. Attacks on me with Autochthon Wurm and I bock Tom's Wurm with my equiped bassilisk.Trample is not used, because its killed before it deals dmg, rigt?

C) John blocks my bassilisk with Hellkite Overlord and paying it's regenerate.... it works as usual? Right?

D) Steve blocks my bassilisk with [Goblin Skycutter enchated with Mammoth Umbra - making it 5/4 vigi.

  • now what happens??My bassilisk deals lethal DMG to Goblin...But whats next?

D: a) Umbra cracks and falls off Goblin, making it 2/1 again - and not killing my bassilisk. Right?

or

D: b) after my lethal dmg to goblin, umbra doesnt crack yet. Thus making goblin deal 5dmg to my bassilisk and killing it?

mafteechr says... #1

Let's get a few rules out of the way, shall we?

510. Combat Damage Step

510.1. First, the active player announces how each attacking creature assigns its combat damage, then the defending player announces how each blocking creature assigns its combat damage.

510.1c A blocked creature assigns its combat damage to the creatures blocking it. If no creatures are currently blocking it (if, for example, they were destroyed or removed from combat), it assigns no combat damage. If exactly one creature is blocking it, it assigns all its combat damage to that creature. If two or more creatures are blocking it, it assigns its combat damage to those creatures according to the damage assignment order announced for it. This may allow the blocked creature to divide its combat damage. However, it cant assign combat damage to a creature thats blocking it unless, when combat damage assignments are complete, each creature that precedes that blocking creature in its order is assigned lethal damage.

510.5. If at least one attacking or blocking creature has first strike (see rule 702.7) or double strike (see rule 702.4) as the combat damage step begins, the only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are those with first strike or double strike. After that step, instead of proceeding to the end of combat step, the phase gets a second combat damage step. The only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are the remaining attackers and blockers that had neither first strike nor double strike as the first combat damage step began, as well as the remaining attackers and blockers that currently have double strike. After that step, the phase proceeds to the end of combat step.

702.2b Any nonzero amount of combat damage assigned to a creature by a source with deathtouch is considered to be lethal damage, regardless of that creatures toughness.

702.2c A creature with toughness greater than 0 thats been dealt damage by a source with deathtouch since the last time state-based actions were checked is destroyed as a state-based action.

Essentially, you assign combat damage during the combat damage step. A creature with deathtouch needs to only assign 1 damage for it to be considered lethal.

Since we are specifically considering cases where the attacking creature has first strike, I will reference the first combat damage step and second combat damage step. Only creatures with first strike (or double strike) assign and deal damage in the first combat damage step.

December 28, 2011 5:48 a.m.

mafteechr says... Accepted answer #2

Now, here we go.

A: During the first combat damage step, Greater Basilisk assigns and deals 1 deathtouch damage to both Wall of Vines and the remaining 5 deathtouch damage to Arc Runner (you could assign the excess damage to any blocking creature). All three blocking creatures die at the end of the first combat damage step and Greater Basilisk is dealt zero damage.

B: During the first combat damage step, Greater Basilisk assigns and deals 7 deathtouch damage to Autochthon Wurm , and it dies at the end of the first combat damage step. Since Autochthon Wurm does not have first or double strike, it deals zero damage to Greater Basilisk .

C: During the first combat damage step, Greater Basilisk assigns and deals 7 deathtouch damage to Hellkite Overlord . After damage is dealt, Hellkite Overlord is regenerated (damage is removed, creature is tapped, and is removed from combat). Since Hellkite Overlord does not have first or double strike, it deals zero damage to Greater Basilisk .

D: During the first combat damage step, Greater Basilisk assigns and deals 7 deathtouch damage to Goblin Skycutter . After damage is dealt, all damage is removed from Goblin Skycutter and Mammoth Umbra is destroyed. Since Goblin Skycutter does not have first or double strike, it deals zero damage to Greater Basilisk . Edit: During the second combat damage step, Goblin Skycutter will deal 2 damage to Greater Basilisk.

Note on D: If Greater Basilisk was not equipped with Viridian Claw (thus making it a 6/5 deathtouch creature without first strike), then Goblin Skycutter would deal 5 damage to Greater Basilisk , thus killing it.

December 28, 2011 5:48 a.m.

oltskul says... #3

whoa! nice one.... thanx!

ad D: Goblin Skycutter 's Mammoth Umbra is removed... why doesnt he deal any dmg to Greater Basilisk ?

and just to be sure, attacking creature with Firststrike delas Firststrike dgm to all blocking creatures?

there is no mentioning about this on rules.

December 28, 2011 7:12 a.m.

rckclimber777 says... #4

mafteachr shouldn't the skycutter still do 2 damage to the basilisk? totem is not regeneration and so it isn't removed from combat. I agree the totem falls off, but the skycutter should still be in combat.

December 28, 2011 9:17 a.m.

Tian says... #5

Ummm, its impossible for Arc Runner to even block. :/

December 28, 2011 10:37 a.m.

oltskul says... #6

TIAM: I know, but it was exaple.... ;)

perhaps it was casted with flash :P

or maybe it coulde be:Dross Crocodile Igneous Pouncer it is bit irrelevant;) - no offense

December 28, 2011 10:46 a.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #7

@oltskul: You have to split up the attacker's damage among the blockers during damage assignment. He doesn't deal his full power damage to each one.

The reason Goblin Skycutter hasn't dealt damage to Greater Basilisk yet is because the explanation stopped in the first strike damage step of combat. There should be one more part:

E: During the regular damage step, Goblin Skycutter assigns and deals 2 damage to Greater Basilisk . He is very sad.

December 28, 2011 10:53 a.m.

mafteechr says... #8

It was almost 6 in the morning before going to bed, sorry.

December 28, 2011 2:48 p.m.

mafteechr says... #9

Edited my post with the comprehensive answer. Thank you again Rhadamanthus.

December 28, 2011 4:40 p.m.

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