Can i use copies of Memory Plunder to cast the same spell multiple times?
Asked by F0rce0fWill 8 years ago
Okay, so the only useful scenario of this would be: I play Elite Arcanist and imprint Memory Plunder. Then i equip him with Illusionist's Bracers. When i tap Elite Arcanist, it will create two copies of Memory Plunder. If i target the same card with both copies, do i get to cast it twice or does the second one lose its target?
F0rce0fWill says... #2
PayOneLife, it doesnt, but it does leave the graveyard and reenters it. It might work like a Doom Blade being dodged by a Deadeye Navigator.
May 20, 2015 6:02 a.m.
The second one would lose its target. Whenever a card moves zones it's no longer an object in the previous zone. Although it does go from graveyard to stack to graveyard, it's still moving out of the graveyard and will be a new object to the game when it re-enters.
By this same reasoning, using something like Cloudshift on a creature will stop it from dying to a targeted kill spell because the version of it that was targeted is no longer there.
May 20, 2015 6:47 a.m.
Short answer for the scenario given: Yes, you can target the same spell with both copies of Memory Plunder.
First, let's correct a few things in the example above: Primarily, Elite Arcanist only creates a single copy of the spell (and you have to pay 
in order to activate it in addition to tapping it), and then the Bracers create another.
The Bracers' ability is on top of the stack and will resolve first. When it does, and you choose to cast the copy of Memory Plunder. You can choose an instant or sorcery in an opponents graveyard as part of casting it, and it becomes the topmost object of the stack. If nothing else happens, it resolves and allows you to cast the card. As part of casting a spell, the card you targetted will be removed from whatever zone it's in (in this case, your opponent's graveyard) and be put on the stack as the topmost object. Then if it resolves, it will be put back in it's owners graveyard.
Now, the original ability of Elite Arcanist triggers, and you get to do the same thing again.
May 20, 2015 6:58 a.m.
It doesn't lose it's target because the Plunders aren't on the stack at the same time, such as if you would cast one, then Reverberated it - in the case of Elite Arcanist, you copy the exiled card when it's ability resolves, therefore you will never have both Plunder copies on the stack at the same time, for one to have an illegal target.
Unless I'm missing something :)
May 20, 2015 7:01 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #6
BlueScope's explanation is correct although he did use the word "trigger" when describing the resolution of an activated ability. So I'm sure some pedantic asshole will say "Only triggered abilities trigger". Even though when using the normal English meaning of the word "trigger" what is meant is perfectly clear. Let me see if I can clearly state what happens on the stack so that how this works is perfectly clear.
You activate Elite Arcanist and Illusionist's Bracers triggers making a copy of the ability
The copy of the ability resolves copying Memory Plunder and allowing you to cast it if you wish.
Memory Plunder resolves putting the spell from your opponent's graveyard on the stack.
The spell from your opponent's graveyard resolves going to their graveyard.
Repeat 2-4 for the original Elite Arcanist activation.
May 20, 2015 7:19 a.m.
F0rce0fWill says... #7
The way i thought spells with a target work (like Memory Plunder) it that it must have a target before it can even be cast. You cant play Counterspell without a spell on the stack, or Murder with no creatures in play, correct me if im wrong. This would suggest you have to choose targets before the spell resolves, the moment it is put onto the stack. If this were true, the card in the graveyard would "Cloudshift" the second memory plunder right?
May 20, 2015 12:17 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #8
@roelvanesch: You're right about the "legal target" requirement for casting a spell, but that doesn't cause any problems in this situation. The copy of the spell exiled by Elite Arcanist isn't created and cast until the activated ability actually starts to resolve. BlueScope and Gidgetimer have already explained the correct answer, but if it helps here's a complete breakdown of what happens:
- You activate Elite Arcanist's ability. Assuming nothing else is going on right now, it's on top of the stack.
- Illusionist's Bracers' ability triggers. It's on the stack on top of the Arcanist activation.
- If no one has any responses, the Bracers trigger starts resolving. As it resolves it creates a copy of the Arcanist activation. That copy is on the stack on top of the original activation.
- If no one has any responses, the copy of the Arcanist activation starts to resolve. As it resolves it creates a copy of Memory Plunder and casts it. You choose targets for the copy of Plunder at this time. The copy of Plunder is on the stack on top of the original Arcanist activation.
- If no one has any responses, the copy of Plunder starts to resolve. As it resolves it casts the targeted spell. That spell is on the stack on top of the original Arcanist activation.
- If no one has any responses, the targeted spell starts to resolve. It does whatever it's supposed to do and is put into its owner's graveyard. The original Arcanist activation is now on top of the stack.
- If no one has any responses, the original Arcanist activation starts to resolve. As it resolves it creates a copy of Memory Plunder and casts it. You choose targets for the copy of Plunder at this time. The spell you cast with the earlier copy of Plunder is in the graveyard, so is a legal target. The copy of Plunder is on top of the stack.
- The rest of the process plays out as normal.
May 20, 2015 1:34 p.m. Edited.
F0rce0fWill says... #9
Rhadamanthus you're right, the copy is a different thing as the ability, and they are created and resolve after eachother. Great! Thanks everybody for the help!
PayOneLife says... #1
Memory Plunder doesn't exile the card it casts, so I think that would be fine.
May 20, 2015 4:32 a.m.