Can Elite Arcanist cast copy spells in the same swing? Cast for Surge cost?
Asked by Loreshadow 5 years ago
If Elite Arcanist + Naban, Dean of Iteration , gets to exile and cast two mana stacked cards at once, then can one of these cards, as a copy spell, copy the other card? And does having two cards cast trigger Surge? Would surge have to be cast last every time?
For example. After getting my two creatures out I hand off Wizard's Lightning + Wizard's Retort . Everything seems good so far, a counter spell, followed by 3 damage, a true counter-strike spell for 3 colourless mana.
But when we try Overwhelming Denial + Unstable Footing , Do I get to cast my red spell, and target it if kicked, and then Surge into my counter spell target? Or will I be unable to use them in seperate order? Will my tap cast be too slow to cast two spells and still choose my targets? Can I spend 3 colourless to make sure my counter can't be countered and damage can't be prevented and further inflict 5 burn damage to target player for 3 additional colourless, for a total of 6?
I'm assuming Rebound doesn't work with him unless cast separately by hand due to exile portion of rebound? Copy goes poof?
So on to the third portion. Copying spells cast using the same tap/ability. When we combine Reverberate + Slip Through Space in a single tap, will I get two Slip Through Space? Giving me 2 unblockable targets and draw 2 cards for 3 colourless?
And what happens when Howl of the Horde + Twincast are paired up after an attack? How do they copy each other, should they, and what is the highest number of spell copies they can provide a follow up spell? Is it simply, that Howl of the Horde multiplies Twincast by 2? For 3 copies of target spell? And can that target then be Howl of the Horde for 6 future copies of a target follow up spell for a foundation of 5 colourless mana as a setup?
Can an Exquisite Firecraft then do 28 uncounterable damage? For a total of 8 colourless mana? Or 5 colourless mana with a Living Lore sacrifice? 56 damage with Angrath's Marauders or Insult?
Can I combine Dispel + Wizard's Lightning without canceling my damage out? Can my counter spell be fizzled out to let my burn deal damage or will I not having a dispel target, prevent me from completing the tap?
Can I use a Lightning Bolt + Scatter to the Winds without any counter targets by just targeting my Lightning Bolt so that I can cast my Awaken at the end of a turn for 7 colourless even if my opponent cast no spells? And does Awaken work like Kicker as all colourless, or do I need a very specific mana type as specified on the Awaken cards?
Almost done. :) Does Kaho, Minamo Historian stack her exiled spells together in one mana shot or do they split in three? And if she got doubled by Naban, Dean of Iteration, would she have to cast all 6 at a time, 3 and 3 seperately, or can she cast them all individually?
Now... Mindswipe. So, if I were to copy this with the same target, the first spell would remove the target of the second the cancel out correct? Can I copy it for two mana using my second spell and then choose new targets for double if they try and counter my counter with their own? Or will the copy be too early and be unable to choose anything not by the first? What if there were already two instants out? In what situation would a double Mindswipe be possible?
Lastly, for spells like Cryptic Command, does copying it let you choose new versions of it or is the same choice made?
Still not 100% sure what you're asking with Mindswipe, but if you cast it without paying it's mana cost, such as with Elite Arcanist, X will be 0. The controller of the spell will still have the option to not pay if they want their own spell countered, but the can easily pay it if they don't want it countered, and no damage will be dealt either way.
If you copy a Mindswipe cast regularly the value for X will remain the same, and you'll have to choose whether or not to change the target right then and there (assuming you are allowed to), you won't know whether the spell's controller will pay for it or not. The copy will resolve first, for whatever that's worth, and if they choose not to pay the spell will be removed from the stack. If that was the same spell targeted by the original Mindswipe, when the original goes to resolve it will be removed from the stack for lack of a legal target and be unable to deal any damage.
May 2, 2018 11:09 p.m.
Loreshadow says... #4
So then I should use 'cost 1 less' outside factors? How does that affect the 1 mana spells? Can I play them for free?
Would an Elite Arcanist aided by Jace's Sanctum be able to spend 0 colourless to cast Cerulean Wisps, creating an infinite draw generator? Or is there a minimum cost?
May 2, 2018 11:15 p.m.
No. Jace's Sanctum has no effect on anythings converted mana cost. Elite Arcanist chooses the value of X based solely on the exiled cards converted mana cost, not on how much you'd actually have to pay to cast the spell. If Elite Arcanist has exiled Wizard's Lightning it will cost to activate it's ability and cast the copy, even though it is a wizard itself. Anything that alters the cost to activate abilities, such as Heartstone will apply to the activation cost however.
May 2, 2018 11:32 p.m.
Slight correction on the Unstable Footing example, you will have the option to pay the kicker, which is to deal the damage, not a straight .
May 2, 2018 11:34 p.m.
Loreshadow says... #7
You're crushing all my hopes and dreams man. :p Thanks for the clarifications.
May 2, 2018 11:38 p.m.
Just saw this post. One question I still have is exactly how Elite Arcanist works. From the text it looks to me like the casting of the copies has nothing to do with the resolution of Elite Arcanist's ability. Once the copy has been created, from then on you have the option to cast the copy. I ask because some of the wording in Neotrup's answers seems to suggest otherwise, and I can't find any rulings on this (presumably because the wording is considered to be explicit enough).
May 3, 2018 2:28 p.m.
freshdemon says... #9
Not sure if I understood what you mean, 40fy.
The ability has to resolve for its effect to happen. The effect is that the exiled card gets a temporary copy that you may cast (without paying mana cost), or may not cast, DURING resolution of the ability. The copy ceases to exist if you choose not to not cast it. Like a token in hand.
May 3, 2018 2:56 p.m.
My bad freshdemon, I just realized that another card I was using for rules reference does not work the way I thought it did. Forget everything I said.
Neotrup says... Accepted answer #2
will be the sum. For example, if both Wizard's Lightning and Wizard's Retort are exiled, you'll have to pay to use Elite Arcanist's ability. On resolution you'll copy both cards, and be able to cast either or both (or neither) without paying their mana costs.
Overwhelming Denial + Unstable Footing will cost you , with the option to pay another to deal 5 damage. You will not be able to pay the surge cost, so any abilities check whether surge was paid will not work.
Rebound is an ability that only applies to a spell cast from your hand, as these copies are cast from exile, it does not apply.
Reverberate + Shadow Rift works as you expect, you'll be able to target Shadow Rift with Reverberate as long as you cast Reverberate second while resolving Elite Arcanist's ability.
Howl of the Horde is a sorcery and cannot be exiled with Elite Arcanist. It also only affects a spell cast after it resolves, so it wouldn't be able to copy Twincast.
I have no idea what you're trying to do with Exquisite Firecraft.
Dispel + Wizard's Lightning will require you to pay , but not require you to cast both cards. You can simply cast the Wizard's Lightning.
Lightning Bolt + Scatter to the Winds will let you cast Lightning Bolt and counter it with Scatter to the Winds, but you will not be allowed to pay the awaken cost, so you can't animate a land with it.
With Kaho, Minamo Historian, if the ability is copied, you'll end up exiling 6 cards. They won't be distinct, any time you activate the ability you'll choose one of the cards still exiled and cast it. You won't get to cast two unless you copy the activated ability.
I'll get back to you one Mindswipe, my mind is burning out.
When you copy a spell, you keep the mode and target the same. Most things that copy a spell will let you choose new targets after copying, but nothing to my knowledge lets you change modes.
May 2, 2018 9:56 p.m.