Blowfly Infestation + Nest of Scarabs Infinite?

Asked by chezwaldo 6 years ago

Can Nest of Scarabs + Blowfly Infestation be an infinite combo? If i put a -1/-1 counter on a 1/1 creature I'm triggering Nest of Scarabs to put a scarab token on the battlefield and the 1/1 should die from the counter so Blowfly Infestation triggers to put another -1/-1 on another creature. So can i stack it so Nest of Scarabs triggers then trigger Blowfly Infestation to put a -1/-1 on the scarab token and loop it again? I'm wondering if i need to chose targets for Blowfly Infestation first to put it on the stack or not.

If it is an infinite combo then The Scorpion God has infinite card draw combo as well.

chezwaldo says... #1

The The Scorpion God link does not go to the card lol

June 20, 2017 10:01 a.m.

BlueScope says... #2

First things first: The Real Scorpion King (you could've linked the card instead of lol-ing, you know? ;) )

As for the first interaction - what happens is that putting the counter on your creature triggers Nest of Scarabs. Before it's put on the stack, however, state-based actions see that you have a creature with toughness 0 or less and destroy it, which triggers Blowfly Infestation. Now you get priority and put those triggers on the stack, however you need to choose a target for Blowfly Infestation's trigger at the time you put it on the stack, limiting the amount of repetitions you get to do here to the amount of creatures with toughness 1 you had at the time you started.

June 20, 2017 10:35 a.m.

chezwaldo says... #3

So if I had 2 1/1's on the field, killed one with a -1/-1 counter I'll get both triggers and have a 1/1 creature target for BlowFly. If I stack the triggers so Nest of Scarabs is on top of Blowfly Infestation I should have two 1/1's on the battlefield and can start again right?

Also i found out how to properly link the scorpion god card:The Scorpion God

June 20, 2017 10:56 a.m.

BlueScope says... #4

Yeah, that actually works, assuming you have at least two of those creatures on the board!

June 20, 2017 1:17 p.m.

raidatheblade says... #5

That does not work, even if you have two or more creatures on the board. You cannot stack those two cards' abilities as you want, since they always work the same way This is because putting the counter onto the creature and that creature dying don't actually happen at the same time.

The counter gets put on a creature, which triggers Nest. Then, before anybody gains priority, state-based effects are checked. It's during this check that the creature actually dies. This then triggers the infestation, which goes on the stack. When it goes on the stack, you have to choose a target. If you have another 1/1 to put the counter on, then that all will happen again. The infestation trigger will resolve, placing the counter on the creature. This will trigger nest again (remember, this is all happening with the original nest trigger on the stack, which means that it hasn't produced a token yet). Once again, state-based effects are checked, and the 1/1 dies, triggering infestation. Once again, you must choose the target at this stage, and the infestation will resolve before either nest trigger.

June 24, 2017 4:04 p.m.

chezwaldo says... #6

Ok so its limited to the amount of 1 toughness creatures on the board at the time of the first trigger. And repeatable as long as I have mana to put counters on the new scarab tokens being created then.

July 6, 2017 10:29 a.m.

shouldn't it go as follows:

Have 2 scarabs out to start, trigger an effect that puts a -1/-1 counter on a scarab, this immediately triggers Nest of Scarabs because it triggers whenever an action puts a -1/-1 counter on a creature, then the -1/-1 counter resolves, killing the scarab as a state based action. This then puts blowfly infestation onto the stack, with the trigger you must pick a scarab, but the act of targeting a creature with a -1/-1 counter results in a Nest of Scarabs trigger to be put on the stack on top of the Blowfly infestation (Because the target selection is something that can be responded to by using things like dive down which gives a creature hexproof thus countering the -1/-1 counter placement) so a new scarab gets placed before the -1/-1 counter gets placed.

So it SHOULD generate a combo that isn't infinite because as long as there's a creature other than your two scarabs, you can stop the combo at any point you want.

January 6, 2018 5:23 p.m.

Sgt.Pickles says... #8

Hey guys, I'm interested in knowing how this works, but I have a bit of a learning disability in logic/math, so I can't for the life of me figure out why this isn't an infinite combo (I don't really know how EXACTLY the stack works I guess). I don't really need to know how or why it works, but could someone just explain the limits/ potential of the combo? Like, if you infestation and nest, and you put a -1/-1 counter on a creature and kill it, how many tokens (Net gain) will you make, and what other conditions apply? For example, you can gain tokens equal to the amount of pre-existing creatures on the field, as long as you can target all those creatures to put -1/-1 counters on them to keep the loop going? Is that it? Thanks so much!

January 17, 2018 10:18 p.m.

Trotticus says... #9

Raidatheblade explained it pretty well.

The abilities trigger at different times, and as a result Nest of Scarabss trigger will always be trapped under Blowfly Infestations.

Still a neat, non-infinite combo though. For each time you can independently place a -1/-1 counter in a turn, you can destroy each targetable 1-toughness creature on the battlefield, gain the total amount killed in 1/1 scarabs, and put a -1/-1 counter on any remaining creature (netting an extra scarab once all the Nest of Scarabs triggers resolve).

So with The Scorpion God, thats a lot of cards you can draw.

January 17, 2018 11:11 p.m.

Sgt.Pickles says... #10

Ah, I get it. You can't go infinite, but you can get a game-winning effect as long as there are creatures on the board. Combined with Obelisk Spider, you can probably save yourself and put your opponent on lethal very easily. Noice. Thank you so much for re-explaining that to me!

January 18, 2018 3:19 p.m.

chezwaldo says... #11

I think since you control both triggers you can stack them how you want though, no? Your putting the counter on so that goes on the stack and the state-based action goes on the stack at the same time.

February 1, 2018 10:41 a.m.

Trotticus says... #12

The abilities dont trigger at the same time, Nest triggers when counters are placed and Infestation triggers when a creature dies.Therefore you cant stack them the way you want, unfortunately.

February 1, 2018 4:34 p.m.

Trotticus says... #13

Two abilities will need to share the same trigger to be put on the stack at the same time.

February 1, 2018 4:50 p.m.

chezwaldo says... #14

Wouldn't the state-based action have to resolve before anything is put on the stack anyways? After the SBA you are left with two triggers, the nest from the placing and Infestation from the dying. Making it so they are being put on the stack during the same priority.

February 1, 2018 7:09 p.m.

Trotticus says... #15

Yes, they are put on the stack before anyone gets priority, but they still arent put on at the exact same time. The two triggers are separated by the game checking for state-based effects.

February 1, 2018 8:36 p.m.

Wombatish says... Accepted answer #16

Triggered abilities don't get placed on the stack until SBA are resolved. The difference is that you make the decision about the order when they are PLACED on the stack, not when they are initially triggered. Since creatures going to the graveyard doesn't use the stack in any way the -1/-1 counter being placed and the creature dying are effectively one event. Thus the abilities are placed on the stack at the same time.

Point being, you can go infinite, but it's far too complicated to be worth it.

April 30, 2018 8:49 p.m.

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