An arising question about new Gideon...
Asked by UpperDeckerTaco 7 years ago
For Standard:
Let's say someone is playing Cat Combo and the other player has Gideon of the Trials out, and they make the Emblem, the one with the inability to lose and the opponent to win if you control a Gideon planeswalker...if the Copy Cat deck goes in on the combo to success, and makes let's say, 50 cats (just an example), and successfully attacks but declares 15 attackers to Gideon, and the rest to the person, then damage happens, the Gideon dies. Does the person still take all that damage from the cats attacking the player and will that player then lose because Gideon died also? So what I'm getting at, Gideon emblem with Gideon out, still loses to cat combo if the cat combo player assigns enough attackers at both Gideon and the player to kill both?
The simple answer is yes, they still die.
To elaborate, let's use your example of 50 cats and their opponent has 20 life.
The CopyCat deck makes 50 Felidar Guardians, each of them are a 1/4 creature, and they attack Gideon with 15 of them, and their opponent with the remaining 35. Keep in mind that the new Gideon doesn't prevent damage from being dealt, it just prevents you from losing the game as long as you control a Gideon planeswalker.
Damage is dealt, the Gideon dies at the same time damage is dealt to their opponent (who is now as -15 life) so state-based effects are checked, the game will see there is no longer a Gideon and the opponent has suffered lethal damage, ending the game.
Now let's say hypothetically that having Gideon on the board at the same time as the damage being dealt to you actually did save the player, it still doesn't prevent damage from being dealt. So Gideon would save the player (who is still at -15) but then state-based effects are still checked after placing Gideon in the graveyard, and the player still loses. That is assuming they don't control another Gideon planeswalker.
So in the end, regardless of whether the Gideon would save a player at the time damage is dealt, the player still loses as soon as state-based effects are checked.
April 6, 2017 7:49 a.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #3
Note that it is impossible for them to control another Gideon planeswalker due to the planeswalker uniqueness rule.
BlueScope says... #1
Please link all cards relevant to your question, or at least make an attempt to explain what they do: Gideon of the Trials
(I'm not linking the combo pieces in this case, as the combo isn't at all relevant to the example - you might as well attack with 20 Runeclaw Bears)
Gideon's emblem simply prevents a player from losing the game, it doesn't prevent any damage. That means if 200 cats attacked you, you would take that much damage, emblem or not.
Because of that, the emblem couldn't really save you. If you attacked Gideon as well as the player with a sufficient amount of cats, the next time state-based actions are checked, it sees you at negative life, and Gideon at zero loyalty. You won't lose the game at this point because of the emblem, but Gideon will be put into the graveyard. State-based actions are checked again, seeing you at negative life, and you lose the game.
April 6, 2017 7:45 a.m.