Amininatou Ultimate In Multiplayer

Asked by Cybersix 5 years ago

My local group were left quite unclear about the Gatherer rulings about Aminatou's ultimate in multiplayer.

"7/13/2018 The effect of Aminatou’s third ability lasts indefinitely. It continues to apply after Aminatou (or her controller) leaves the game."

What exactly does this mean? It seems contradictory to the rules (704 I believe) that effects giving players control over the cards of players who have left the game end immediately when the card owner leaves the game..

7/13/2018 In a multiplayer game, if a player leaves the game, all cards that player owns leave as well. The effect of Aminatou’s third ability stops applying to all permanents that player controlled and control of them reverts to their previous controller.

The ultimate can be triggered more than once in multiplayer. The 'previous controller' may not be the card owner. The ruling 'all cards that player owns leave (the game) as well' vs 'control of them reverts to their previous controller' (which may very well not be the owner)...which statement takes priority? Also, the statement: "It continues to apply after Aminatou (or her controller) leaves the game", what does this mean with regard to rule 704?

Neotrup says... #1

If a player leaves the game, everything they own (not control) leaves with them. If they still control anything, those go back to the previous controller (based on what control effects still apply), which may not be the owner. If Aminatou's owner leaves you follow the same process, which will still leave a bunch of things conrolled by people other than their owners.

September 19, 2018 3:28 p.m.

Kogarashi says... #2

The relevant rules for when a player leaves the game are actually at 800, not 704. As Neotrup said, if Aminatou, the Fateshifter's controller leaves the game, all that player's owned cards are removed from the game, all their spells and effects on the stack go away, any effects that gave them control over someone else's things end (but this doesn't completely undo Aminatou's ultimate, just the part that gave her controller control of some things), and anything left controlled by that player is exiled.

So the player that currently has cards owned by Aminatou's controller loses that stuff, and the player that previously controlled cards controlled by Aminatou's controller gets them back.

September 19, 2018 10:29 p.m.

LGFlatron says... Accepted answer #3

Neotrup is correct, but in case there’s still confusion on the “ultimate can be triggered more than once” scenario, I’ll elaborate:

When the player who owns Aminatou, the Fateshifter leaves the game, all objects owned by that player leave the game too, and any objects that the leaving player controls (but does not own) return to the previous controller (or are exiled if there was no previous controller, as would be the case with Bribery).

This is regardless of how many times Aminatou’s third ability was triggered.

This is covered in ruling 800.4a:

Ruling 800.4a Show

- 800.4a When a player leaves the game, all objects (see rule 109) owned by that player leave the game and any effects which give that player control of any objects or players end. Then, if that player controlled any objects on the stack not represented by cards, those objects cease to exist. Then, if there are any objects still controlled by that player, those objects are exiled. This is not a state-based action. It happens as soon as the player leaves the game. If the player who left the game had priority at the time they left, priority passes to the next player in turn order who’s still in the game.

(Note: This means ruling 704 does not apply in this situation; the game does not wait for priority to change.)

The card’s ruling supports this:

• In a multiplayer game, if a player leaves the game, all cards that player owns leave as well. The effect of Aminatou’s third ability stops applying to all permanents that player controlled and control of them reverts to their previous controller.

This also means permanents owned by surviving players but controlled by other surviving players stay with their current controllers i.e. they are unaffected by the player leaving.

The card’s ruling also supports this:

• The effect of Aminatou’s third ability lasts indefinitely. It continues to apply after Aminatou (or her controller) leaves the game.

Examples Show

Player A who controls Animatou uses the third ability, then leaves the game.

The result would be:

• Player B (controls nothing, Player A’s objects leave the game)

• Player C (controls Player B’s permanents)

• Player D (controls Player C’s and Player D’s permanents, since Player D controlled his own permanents before Player A took them and left)

Now let’s assume instead that Player A who controls Animatou uses the third ability for a second time before leaving the game.

• Player B (controls Player D’s objects)

• Player C (controls nothing, Player A’s permanents leave the game)

• Player D (controls Player C’s and Player B’s permanents, since Player D controlled Player C’s permanents before Player A took them and left).

This one took me a while to get my head around, but according to the comprehensive rules I believe this is how it would play out.

If I’ve got it wrong anywhere though, please let me know :)

Edit: I’m too slow on my phone, Kogarashi explained it well. I’ve added examples to help explain.

September 19, 2018 11:26 p.m.

Cybersix says... #4

Thank you flatron, the player d situation from your example happened in actual play; we had thought the 'extra' permanents got exiled but i guess not.

September 20, 2018 3:20 a.m.

Neotrup says... #5

A point I somewhat glossed over is who the previous controller is. You look at control effects that are still relevant, which means you ignore someone who just gained control "until end of turn." So if player A is the Aminatou, the Fateshifter and casts Reins of Power targeting player D, then rotates things so B controls D's creatures and A's nonland noncreatures, C controls B's things, D controls C's things, and A controls their own creatures and D's noncreatures. If B dies, A get's their noncreatures back, and D gets their creatures back, because Reins of Power is no longer giving A those creatures.

September 20, 2018 11:54 a.m.