Altered art at fnm
Asked by U8MyPork 6 years ago
Although there are heaps of treads on this already i can find a definitive answer. I am wanting to go to fnm with my dredge deck but am running 8 altered art cards. They are the same size and weight as normal magic cards but I printed them of with my printer as the alteration was made on photo shop. The image is easily recognisable across the table. My only concern is that they were PRINTED not PAINTED.
Rhadamanthus says... #3
From the Magic Tournament Rules:
Artistic modifications are acceptable in sanctioned tournaments, provided that the modifications do not make the card art unrecognizable, contain substantial strategic advice, or contain offensive images. Artistic modifications also may not obstruct or change the mana cost or name of the card.
If your print-outs "make the card art unrecognizable" or "obstruct or change the mana cost or name of the card" then we have a problem. Otherwise they're probably okay as long as they don't noticeably change the thickness or weight of the card in a way that would cause it to be marked. Even so, you're going to need to ask the Head Judge of the event before it starts just to make sure. The Head Judge has the last word on whether or not to allow a given altered card in an event.
July 3, 2017 4:50 p.m.
Oloro_Magic says... #4
It kind of depends on your LGS and how strict the players there are, some people will not want you to be playing any altars whatsoever and will be against it, others just wont care. Ultimately the judge or shop owner running the event decides whether to allow you to so calling ahead is your best option before bringing the deck.
July 3, 2017 6:40 p.m.
it sounds like you made a proxy, not an alter. in which case no, it wouldnt be allowed. if you only printed out a little square of paper that you then glued to the real card then that might be ok, but your best bet is to ask the judge. and since it hasn't already been stated yet, i would also highly recommend that the altered art not obstruct any of the rules text on the card. simply keeping the name of the card and the mana cost unobstructed isn't enough, because not every player is familiar with every card, and players aren't going to want to waste time pulling out their smart phones to look up a card.
July 3, 2017 8:46 p.m.
If you printed onto the magic card and not changed the, then up to the head judge / tournament organizer.
But if you printed onto a different card, like a card onto a basic land, then it's not allowed.
July 3, 2017 9:09 p.m.
The base requirement for using a card in a sanctioned MtG tournament is that it started out as an original MtG card printed by WotC with the same name - whether you printed or painted over it shouldn't matter. From here, consider what's been stated above.
@colton815: The reason why painting over the rules text hasn't been mentioned is that it's perfectly fine by the tournament rules, even among less experienced or knowledgeable players - the reason why you're not allowed to obstruct the card name is to still be easily searchable by judges if asked for the exact rules text.
That said, it's likely a good idea not to do it anyway, for the reasons you mentioned. Plus as a judge, it's a pain in the ass to get called at a table to look up what a card does because even the owner doesn't know the exact phrasing.
So, tl;dr - you are allowed to obstruct the rules text, but everyone's likely going to have an easier time if you don't.
July 4, 2017 10:40 a.m.
If you printed a copy of a card then it's a proxy not an alter and that won't be allowed at FNM. (It's technically counterfeiting, especially since there's money involved at FNM.)
It might be allowed if you bring actual copies of the cards you proxied with you, and just use the proxies as placeholders in your deck, but you you need to get permission first.
If you printed an overlay onto an actual magic card then it counts as an alter not a proxy. However, it is still an issue. Even if your cards are in sleeves there are rules against modifying the thickness of cards. This is to prevent people from padding key cards in their deck so they can cheat by keeping track of those cards by touch.
Even a small increase in thickness is an issue. If you printed overlays, get permission from the head judge at FNM before using those cards.
If you actually printed an image directly onto an actual magic card it's a different story. So long as the usual rules for alters are being followed (no obscuring the name of the card, no strategic advice, no unrecognizable art, no offensive images) there shouldn't be any issue with the fact that you printed it vs. painted it, drew it, w/e.
July 4, 2017 2:25 p.m.
BlueScope why would obstructing the rules text be allowed? i mean i get most people have smart phones, but what about the few who don't? besides, regardless of how easily it can be looked up, theres the principle of the matter. it just doesnt make sense that obstructing the most important part of the card would be legal. or at the very least, its equally important to the name and mana cost.
July 4, 2017 4:25 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #10
The guidance offered by WOTC recommends that head judges consider many things when determining whether to allow an altered card. These considerations include evaluating what is or is not obscured.
Alterations can obscure rules text and still be permissible. The primary concern is that they do not change any text or other important information on the card. While alterations can make text more difficult or impossible to read, that alone is not generally sufficient to disallow the altered cards.
Name and mana cost are considered more carefully because it's recognized that those two features are the most critical pieces of information on any given card. The name establishes the identity of the card and creates a mental association between that line and all other characteristics of the card. For example, if I write "Llanowar Elves," many of you instantly picture a green 1/1 Elf creature that taps for , even though I didn't link or show the card. The mana cost is important because it helps players make decisions and verify that costs are being paid appropriately.
Now, it's fair to say that other text on the card, such as the P/T box or the cost of an activated ability, are also important—they are. But some leeway is allowed for artistic changes.
Judges are also supposed to furnish rules text for cards if asked. In some cases, they will allow players to look the cards up on smartphones that are visible to all parties. This is, of course, less convenient than reading the card. But it isn't against the rules.
At this point, I'm waiting for the OP to respond with a description or image of what exactly is going on here. We can quote and discuss rules and guidance for quite a while, but we need to know what's going on with these "printed alters" before we can offer an answer beyond that.
July 4, 2017 4:45 p.m.
colton815, because the official rules say it's allowed:
3.3 Authorized Cards
Players may use any Authorized Game Cards from Magic: The Gathering expansions, core sets, special sets, supplements, and promotional printings. Authorized Game Cards are cards that, unaltered, meet the following conditions:
- The card is genuine and published by Wizards of the Coast.
- The card has a standard Magic back or is a double-faced card.
- The card does not have squared corners.
- The card has black or white borders.
- The card is not a token card.
- The card is not damaged or modified in a way that might make it marked.
- The card is otherwise legal for the tournament as defined by the format.
- The card is a proxy issued by the judge of a tournament (see section 3.4 for rules about proxies).
Any other cards that are not Authorized Game Cards are prohibited in all sanctioned tournaments.
Unglued and Unhinged basic land cards are allowed in sanctioned Magic tournaments.
Players may use cards from the Alpha printing only if the deck is in opaque sleeves.
Players may use otherwise-legal non-English and/or misprinted cards provided they are not using them to create an advantage by using misleading text or pictures. Official promotional textless spells are allowed in sanctioned Magic tournaments in which they would otherwise be legal.
Artistic modifications are acceptable in sanctioned tournaments, provided that the modifications do not make the card art unrecognizable, contain substantial strategic advice, or contain offensive images. Artistic modifications also may not obstruct or change the mana cost or name of the card.
The Head Judge is the final authority on acceptable cards for a tournament.
Basically they want to give people as much freedom as they can without letting people cheat. You can't modify the Name of the card because it's the primary identifier of that card, you can't modify the mana cost because you could try to trick people into thinking a spell costs less than it does, and you can't make the card art unrecognizable because it's the main identifier for your opponent to see from across the table.
Everything else is fair game, and people tend to like textless alters.
July 4, 2017 4:49 p.m.
sonnet666 "because the official rules say its allowed" doesnt answer my question. im asking WHY it would be allowed. so your "answer" was basically the equivalent of "its allowed because its allowed". if they don't want people to cheat, then don't allow covering the text.
July 4, 2017 4:56 p.m.
Nearly all the answers in Q&A boil down to "because the rules say so."
You can't ask WHY a rule is a rule on a site that doesn't have anyone making the rules on it. Go bother Maro, Tabak, or AskaMagicJudge if it's that important to you.
(And if you bothered to read my whole post, I did explain why it's allowed.)
July 4, 2017 5:41 p.m.
@colton815: Another way to look at it is that providing rules text wouldn't be the ultimate solution either, like you seem to advocate. There are other tournament-legal cards that pose the same, or even bigger problems:
Full-Art cards have no rules text from the beginning. They're printed simply with a name and a mana cost, much like required by the rules for altered cards. You only really have the name to deduce what the card does.
For alternative languages, it's even worse, as a judge won't necessarily be able to input the card's name (such as on the Japanese card I linked there). The rules text isn't obstructed, but without being able to understand it, it won't do you much good.
Basically, sonnet666's explanation stated above describes very well what I think went down when they decided on those rules:
(...) they want to give people as much freedom as they can without letting people cheat.
That said, reading every card your opponent plays isn't exactly common practice. More often than not, tournaments will revolve around a certain metagame where players know the cards in their opponent's decks when they see them - this is true for Modern, Standard and others. Even in formats where this isn't the case, such as a REL Prerelease event or the like, I've seen players explain what the card they just played does, rather than handing it over to their opponent to read through it. My local store often has mixed language cards for events that support that (read: non-prerelease events), and since not everyone understands all languages that are involved, relying on the text box wouldn't work as it is.
I myself play a lot of Japanese cards in my Commander decks. I'm not going to say that I never was criticized for doing so, and accused of trying to conceal the true function of a card, but it never really caused any problems. At the end of the day, if you don't know what a card does, you ask about it, and you will normally get a polite and truthful answer. Unless someone chooses to disregard all social tools and goes straight for your card to read it, whether the text is readable or not won't ever actually matter.
July 4, 2017 6:23 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #15
The Q&A is for answering questions based on the rules as they exist. Those of you who would like to continue this discussion are welcome to do so in the forums.
July 4, 2017 6:50 p.m.
Thank you all for answering! I asked with my local judge and he indeed said that the card was considered a proxy not an alter.
July 6, 2017 8:24 a.m.
mtgfan2020 says... #18
I read in Magicalter.com that artistic modifications are acceptable in sanctioned tournaments, depending how much they were changed. There is many types of alter cards: Magicalter.com/mtg-commissions
I'm pretty sure proxy is not alter either.
Epochalyptik says... #1
When you say you printed them, what does that mean? Can you describe the exact process you use?
July 3, 2017 3:32 p.m.