Activated Abilities vs. Removal

Asked by RedUndead40 8 years ago

So my friends and I have been playing MTG for years now and I just barely came across this ruling that totally changes the way we play, need some clarification.

I activate the ability of Jace's Archivist. My opponent responds with a kill card. After it resolves, he goes to cycle his hand. I'm confused by this because I was under the impression that removing the creature removed the ability from the stack, but then he shows me this ruling:

602.2a The player announces that he or she is activating the ability. If an activated ability is being activated from a hidden zone, the card that has that ability is revealed. That ability is created on the stack as an object thats not a card. It becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. Its controller is the player who activated the ability. The ability remains on the stack until its countered, it resolves, or an effect moves it elsewhere.

Which means that the ability still resolves after the creature dies? This is totally throwing me off. Does this mean there's no way to stop an activated ability once the player has the open mana / tap ability that requires it? You can't preemptively remove the creature because they can respond and activate, but you can wait for an activation to respond because it resolves anyway?

This seems like it shouldn't be this way.

tl;dr - killing a creature doesn't remove it's activated ability from the stack? Then how do you stop troublesome activations?

Unfallener says... #1

Yes, ability would still happen. The only way to fizzle out an ability is to void the target, not the source.

October 13, 2015 2:13 p.m.

RedUndead40 says... #2

So you're telling me there's no way to stop an activated ability once it is effectively "loaded"?

If I go to kill the target first they can just respond and activate, so you're just kind of screwed if someone has a troublesome ability at the ready?

October 13, 2015 2:16 p.m.

Unfallener says... #3

Right, the most common example is Avatar of Woe vs Royal Assassin Avatar of Woe kills Royal Assassin, in response, Royal Assassin kills Avatar of Woe, they both die because abilities remain on stack. One clever way to fizzle out targeting is to use Cloudshift When permanent comes back, it's considered a new permanent, making the old target of an ability void.

October 13, 2015 2:18 p.m.

Pilz_753 says... #4

Also there are some cards like Stifle and Azorius Guildmage that can counter activated abilities.

October 13, 2015 2:35 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #5

Once your opponent has the available resources to activate an ability you can not stop them from putting it on the stack unless you have removal with split second (Sudden Death and the like). Once the ability is on the stack it exists independently of its source and and will resolve unless countered. If you want to stop an ability you need to stop it before they have the means to activate it.

October 13, 2015 3:08 p.m.

gebell says... #6

This completely changes the way I've always played... how have I never encountered this. Someone taps a creature to do x, I lightning bolt creature in response. x still happens.

Huh.

October 14, 2015 2:22 p.m.

RedUndead40 says... #7

gebell right?!? I've been playing for years and always thought that you could stop activations by removing the source.

Not sure if I love or hate this...

October 14, 2015 2:34 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #8

I guess no one quoted the most relevant rule, we just told you that your interpretation of 602.2a led to a correct assumption. The rule that most clearly answers your question is 112.7a.

112.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, "Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to target creature or player") rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.

October 14, 2015 4:17 p.m.