A ton of questions involving Vibrating Sphere

Asked by UniqueUserID 8 years ago

I think I finally thought of a way to make Vibrating Sphere playable. But some of the combo messiness is beyond my basic knowledge. Could you help clarify what happens in these scenarios?

1) Vibrating Sphere is on the field. I have an Nether Traitor on the field and 3 in the graveyard. When it is my opponents turn the static ability kicks in and will make him a 1/0 and he will be destroyed/moved to the graveyard. Can I make a endless loop with the other 3 to do this endlessly? What is the LOWEST amount I need to make an endless loop?

2) River Kelpie is on the field. I play Victimize sacrificing River Kelpie and targeting two River Kelpie's in the graveyard. Does River Kelpie who was sac'ed enter the field at the SAME time? How many cards do I draw?

3) It's the my opponents turn and I have two River Kelpie's on the field, one Butcher of Malakir and one Gnawing Zombie and of course Vibrating Sphere too. Is there a way to stack Gnawing Zombie's ability so both River Kelpie enter play at the same time to add extra draws? And would they have to sac 4 creatures to Butcher of Malakir effect?

4) Returned Reveler dies and I have one Nether Traitor traitor in the graveyard. But his discard effect also discarded 3 Nether Traitors from the deck to the graveyard. I don't suppose somehow I can use the stack somehow to summon these?

Sorry about the the wall of text, I don't want to accidentally pull of something I can't do!

erabel says... Accepted answer #1

Ask unrelated questions in separate... questions. At any rate, short answers:

1. Yes, given enough mana, and you only need 2.
2. No, and seven cards.
3. No to extra draws, yes to Butcher triggers.
4. No.

Longer answers:

1. Okay, so, at your opponent's upkeep (which is the first time in a given turn where SBA's are checked, because it's the first time anyone receives priority), Nether Traitor will be seen a 1/-1 (not a 1/0, which isn't relevant to this question but you got it wrong so I figured you ought to know) and the SBA that sends 0-or-less toughness creatures to the graveyard happens. This triggers any other Nether Traitors in your graveyard, and if you can pay the mana for a trigger, that creature will enter the battlefield as a 1/-1, die immediately to SBA's, and the cycle repeats. Note that it does require a mana payment. Also, you only need two, because by the time the dead one's ability finished resolving and it's put onto the battlefield, the erstwhile living one's been dead for a while.
2. No. The Persist trigger won't go on the stack until after Victimize is finished resolving. Once Victimize has finished resolving, five triggers will go on the stack: Persist from the sacced River Kelpie, a card draw trigger from each of the other River Kelpies entering themselves, and a card draw trigger from each of the River Kelpies seeing the other one enter. The order of these ultimately doesn't matter. Once the Persist trigger resolves and the third one re-enters, you'll have three more card draw triggers for a total of seven cards drawn.
3. Triggers resolve one at a time. Even if you could sacrifice both River Kelpies to the same effect simultaneously (Barter in Blood comes to mind), each Persist trigger would trigger and resolve individually, bringing back the River Kelpies one at a time. Butcher of Malakir will still trigger for them dying both times, netting four forced sacrifices for your opponent.
4. Triggers don't check retroactively. By the time the three Nether Traitors are put into your graveyard (not discarded; discard means a specific thing in Magic: moved from hand to graveyard), the event that would cause them to trigger has long since passed. Kill another creature.

July 1, 2015 11:57 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #2

1

It's not endless. You eventually have to choose to stop the loop because it's not a loop of mandatory actions.

2

The original Kelpie isn't sacrificed until the spell resolves, so the spell will resolve completely before the persist ability is put onto the stack. The other two Kelpies will be on the field already. This would be different if the sacrifice were an additional cost to cast.

3

Independent abilities or spells NEVER resolve simultaneously. Each persist ability is separate and will resolve one at a time. Butcher's ability triggers as many times as is appropriate.

4

No. The Reveler has to die in order for its ability to trigger, so that event is long gone by the time the Shadows are milled.

Note that you can't discard from your library. Discarding is from the hand. "Milling" is from the library.

July 1, 2015 12:02 p.m.