W: Huntmaster, H: Snaps, Geist, Image, Liliana
The Trading Post forum
Posted on March 6, 2012, 10:58 a.m. by Jmickey701
Hello, i am needing 3 mainly. But also any Red/Green lands, green suns, thrun, birds of paradise, etc.
Jmickey701 says... #4
Im not sure if I want to do RG Ramp or RG aggro. Either way I need the same things lol
March 6, 2012 11:42 a.m.
Jmickey701 says... #5
But its not werewolves. As much as i wanted them to work they will never be tier 1. Specially since their lord negates the best werewolf. Makes no sense.
March 6, 2012 11:44 a.m.
sorry JM but your wrong. Your not understanding Immerwolf, and Huntmaster. 1. How many times does Huntmaster EVER flip back and forth?(me and others have playtested this a LOT) ANSWER: IT don't. I have only seen it flip back and forth 1 times out of 250 playtest.
my werewolf deck went 4-2 vs some of the better to best players,decks, in the spokane area, at T and M cards, in a 6 round 60 player FNM. I played Blue Delver, Humans, spirits, Wolf Run, Zombies, Blightsteel. Only reason I lost to Blightsteel, is that I didnt have any answers, and didnt have Metamorph in the deck at the time(corrected that problem). Only reason why I lost to Humans, was he had ULTIMATE CHRISTMAS DRAW, of 4 champions out by turn 3, and drew all his sideboard cards vs me, while I drew none.Leo and fatty who were at the FNM, who have placed consistently have semi consistently beaten top 10 regional, state players, place semi consistently. If I would have not gotten unlucky I would have won that 1 of the toughest FNM's, with my werewolf deck.
And during that FNM Huntmaster didnt flip back and forth, not a once. So you dont have to worry about immerwolf stopping huntmaster from flipping back and forth, because huntmaster wont flip back and forth.]Werewolves are a tier 1 ROGUE dedk, the reason why its not played, is because: 1. Some players dont like werewolves. 2. Tier 1 calibber werewolf decks, are EXPENSIVE($300 to $400), money wise. 3. players like you dont understand them.
The reason why werewolf decks are so good: 1 you get werewolfs out semi fast. 2. you pump them up super big. 3. you have so much BURN, REMOVAL cards to put in your deck. 3 you can mana ramp. 4. you can tutor up werewolves. 4. you can EASILY PROTECT YOUR WEREWOLVES FROM SPOT REMOVAL, BOARD WIPE, via moonmist, full moon's rise, and sideboard cards, like Autumn's Veil 5. And has answers for almost EVERYTHING.
Daybreak Ranger kills stuff, Huntmaster kills stuff, makes tokens, gives life,etc. Mayor, makes tokens, pumps, Immerwolf has intimidate, is unblcokable by blue, black, white, and pumps, and protects werewolfs from being flipped back, Phyrexian metamorph copies werewolves, and things like blightsteels, Geist of st traft, etc, Birds of paradise are mana flyers, can chump block, be pumped by wolf run for alternate win con, Brimstone Volley is AWESOME, so is a sideboarded Blashphemous Act, Garruk relentless, just does so much, moonmist is wonderful, Full moon's rise says F U to almost all removal except, vapor snags, dismember, O ring,etc, Autumn's Veil is a AWESOME sideboard card.
I really suggest you look at the top builds, and my werewolf deck, and my sideboard. Its a $385 deck that owns standard right now.
deck:fell-morphic-master-packs-hunt NOT tier 1 LMFAO
March 6, 2012 12:53 p.m.
Best thing to do with Huntmaster, Immerwolf, is to get Mayor out,flipped, Daybreak ranger out,flipped, Huntmaster out,flipped, full moon's Rise out, Phyrexian Metamorph out, copying a flipped Mayor, Or Nightfall Predator. Then Immerwolf out. All that happens by, on turn 5,6.
March 6, 2012 1:09 p.m.
Jmickey701 says... #9
So first of all, i dont like rude pompus people commenting on my stuff. Second, huntmaster doesnt flip?! What deck are you playing?! He's easily flipped if you know what youre doing. Werewolves are too easily dealt with. Yes, theyre extremely explosive, but once that explosion dies, werewolves die, and fast. My delver dumps all over werewolves, never been beaten by them. Werewolves get crushed at my fnm, with relative ease. Also, the people on here who brag about how good they are normally full of it. Also werewolves arent exactly ROGUE when theyre a tribal card, do u even understand what rogue means? I never said wolves were bad, i actually do have a werewolf deck myself. But you also need to get your arguments straight. First u say huntmaster never flips then you talk about how good he is cause he produces tokens and gains life? Then u say full moons rise says "FU" to all "removal spells except" then u begin to name the most used removal spells in standard. Dont come on here insulting my intelligence please, specially when u dont really know too much about what youre arguments are even for. Also, a 4-2 record isnt exactly impressive. Thank u sir and have a good day.
March 6, 2012 1:24 p.m.
Jmickey701 says... #10
Also, just because YOUVE had success with a werewolf deck doesnt make it tier 1. Until you start winning pro tours or grand prix, your not putting decks into tier 1 status from your kitchen table.
March 6, 2012 1:53 p.m.
And I don't like it when someone says that werewolf is not a tier 1 deck when it is. If you dont want to get a response, then you probably shouldn't say something like that.
I didnt say it doesn't flip. I said it doesn't flip BACK AND FORTH, BACK AND FORTH. So unless you make players dumb enough to cast 2 spells, to flip Huntmaster BACK AND FORTH, or a spell kind of like a Moonmist, except, but that causes Huntmaster to flip BACK AND FORTH, Huntmaster won't BACK AND FORTH flip, hardly ever, unless he is in a non werewolf, blue,red,green deck, where you can cast a lot of 1 cmc spells, over and over to flip huntmaster, BACK AND FORTH over and over.
And your wrong again, in that werewolves are not like kuldotha red goblin decks, that explode, and then run out of steam. My werewolf deck can keep on trucking turns 8,9,10,11,12. I beat Kessig Wolf Run 2-1, and it wasn't because of luck. My opponent had a good Wolf run deck, played well. And I won game 1 on turn 11, after we both kept on king each others creatures off.
Delver dumps on werewolves huh, Guess that's why he lost a close game 1 to my werewolf deck, then I lost a close game 2, Then game 3 I drew my Autumn's Veils, and Surgical extractions, and he couldn't counterspell, vapor snag me any more, because of that. and I won game 3 EASILY. I suggest you learn what Autumn's Veil, and Surgical extractions do and how they are used, and or play your Delver deck vs players who use them, instead of players who don't use them.
Go ahead and call me, or imply that I am a bragger, liar. but the fact is that the FNM's at T and M cards, are not your ordinary FNM's. Its kind of like going to a casino to play a poker tournament. Most of the time the players arent that good. But some poker players actually play at local casino's with awesome poker players. T and M cards has some of the better FNM players in the city of spokane, and in the state of washington. thats a fact. My werewolf deck went 4-2 vs that tough field of good players, and better decks, and that's a fact.
CONTINUED ON INTO NEXT POST.
March 6, 2012 1:57 p.m.
Jmickey701 says... #12
Yeah, huntmaster is very easily flipped back and forth. My friends red green aggro wins with just huntmaster on numerous occasions. Also, if you knew delver youd know that autumns veil isnt gonna slow it down. Also, you insulting my intelligence by saying i dont know what simple cards are is actually starting to get annoying, specially when its coming from a 12 year old who thinks his minor success at ONE fnm shop puts a deck into tier 1. Again, you dont even know what youre arguing about. I get it man, you're in love with werewolves, your love isnt enough to put them as tier 1, hate to burst your bubble. When you can give me ACTUAL REASONS why werewolves are tier 1 then ill believe you. But your love for them just isnt gettin it there. Sorry little bud.
March 6, 2012 2:10 p.m.
There are the follwing type of Rogue decks:
- Decks that are weird, strange, that are not understood.
- Decks that that dont win a lot. 3. decks that are not played a lot.
Full moon's rise does say F U to D O J, Ratchet Bomb, Doomblade, and Go for the Throat. And whatever Full Moon's rise doesnt stop, Autumn's Veil will stop, and whatever Autumn's Veil doesn't stop(like white removal, then cards like Huntmaster deters exiling, by destroying the exiler and returning Huntmaster into play, triggering its enter battlefield effect.
And if all that doesnt work. That's what baiting and switching, good,clever play is for, to draw out cause your opponent to misplay use removal, eventually my opponents are not going to stop me with removal.
And also 4-2 vs, at T and M cards, is good. If you took your Delver deck to T and M cards, and played in their 60 man 6 round FNM, against the better players, and decks, there, you would probably go 4-2, 3-3, 5-1, there.
Also its just not my werewolf deck. There is another werewolf deck that I have seen that does pretty well in spokane. But your right most of them are not that good.
Also the top werewolf builds, on tapped out, have been consistently winning, at FNM's, city tournaments, convention,expo,fair, tourneys, regional, tourneys.
Also there are 2,3 werewolf decks, on this site and mine is 1 of them, that I think would do well at states, GP's, PTQ's, IF a professional magic player, played those decks.I am not a professional magic player. But I do know how to build pretty darn good decks. But since I am not a professional magic player. I probably wouldnt, couldnt win, place well at a states, GP, PTQ event, even if I had the best magic deck ever built.
Also most werewolf decks are not made good enough to be a tier 1 deck. You have to spend a lot of money, and build the best werewolf deck possible, for it to be a tier 1 deck. But once you do that, a correctly built werewolf deck can, and will semi consistently beat other tier 1 decks, like: Kessig Wolf Run, Blue black Zombie undying Aggro, Blue Delver, Humans, spirits, RDW,etc.
March 6, 2012 2:37 p.m.
Jmickey701 says... #14
I agres that werewolves have their tricks and can certainly compete. The main problem i had in testing my werewolf deck was my opponent had too much control over my creatures. Obviously im sure youve testedmore than i, but in testing i consistently had probelms of being to slow out the gate 60% of the time. But thats just my experience. Im glad u do well and all but i just cant see them being top decks. Thats all.
March 6, 2012 2:48 p.m.
No Huntmaster is not flipped back and forth easily IN A WEREWOLF DECK. The reason why Huntmaster flipped back and forth easily, in your friends, red,green aggro, or Wolf Run deck, is all the 1,2 cmc drops. a good Red,Green Aggro, or Wolf Run deck, will cast 1 of 4 viridian Emmisary, 4 birds, 4 rampant growths, etc, which will flip Huntmaster back and forth.
But In a werewolf deck, unless your running 4 birds, 4 reckless waifs, 4 wolfbitten Captives, 4 scorned Villagers, 4 Mayors, 3,4 huntmasters, almost all 1,2 cmc drops, etc, your not gona flip Huntmaster back and forth a lot,in a werewolf deck, unless your opponents are very dumb.
Also you can get a LOT of value of of getting your werewolves out, getting huntmaster out, get your 1 2/2 token, get your 2 life, then flip it do your 2 damage, then get immerwolf out, to protect your other werewolves from being flipped back. If you do that, then your getting good value. And because of that Immerwolf, and Huntmaster are just fine together in the same deck.
Also I didnt just say Autumn's Veil by itself is enough to stop Delver. The way to deal with delver is: you put out something. Delver vapor snags. You Autumn Veil vapor snag, and or a counterspell. Then you surgical extraction all his vapor snags, and counterspells out of Delver's deck, hand, graveyard, etc. Then you put your Aggro stuff out while removing Delvers stuff, which delver cant stop anymore. Then you win, beat delver.
Also you ASS U ME a lot. You ASS U ME that werewolves are not, or cant be or wont be a tier 1 deck. You ASS U ME that T and M cards, is just a normally ordinary FNM shop with weak players. You ASS U ME that I am a kid. YouASS U ME that werewolf decks haven't done well in big tourneys.
Well your ASS UMPTIONS are wrong. T and M cards, has 1 of the biggest 6 round 60 man FNM's in spokane, washington, and has some of the better players, decks. Your delver deck would probably go 4-2, 3-3 there consistently. Its not a 20 player 2,3 round FNM with kids, new players, etc.
Also there are 2,3 OTHER, NOT MY OWN, werewolf decks, here on this site, that have CONSISTENTLY done very well at MANY tourneys.
And perhaps if you would learn to read, listen, understand, not ASS U ME, not accuse, imply,etc, then maybe I wouldnt also say you dont know what cards, are or do. because if you knew what cards, are and do, then you wouldnt be ass u ming, and saying the things your saying.
Huntmaster doesn't flip back and forth in most werewolf decks. Thats a fact. Autumn's veil, and surgical extraction do trash delver decks. that's a fact, just like Tunnel ignus shuts down ramp decks. if you say otherwise, then you don't know cards.
March 6, 2012 3:23 p.m.
Jmickey701 says... #16
So with every sentence u just put on here that i read i think i lost an IQ point i wasnt assuming anything. I was going off plain and simple facts. Werewolves are not tier 1 right now. Just because tapped has 3 good werewolf decks and u do so awesome in spokane(never even heard of that), doesnt put werewolves at tier 1. and youve probably never been to another shop so your opinion is biased anyway. Also, surgical extraction is nice and all but even if u manage to extract a mana leak or vapor snag, you do realize that there is 56 other cards in a deck right? Also what happens when u throw in that surgical extraction on a leak but it was the only one cause i sided the rest out? Nice use of a spell. The fact is werewolves are not tier 1 and probably never will be considering AVR has no DFCs. So, stop commenting on my TRADE page or i will report u as this is a discussion for another thread. Furthermore, i will not be continuing to discuss this as u clearly dont realize what tier 1 decks are and why they are tier 1. Have a good day.
March 6, 2012 3:44 p.m.
EleshBlade says... #17
When I think of tier 1. I think of a deck that repeatable success at a major tournament. According to my knowledge Werewolves has never won a Grand Prix, Starcity Open, or Pro Tour. Or even Top 8 in any of the events I named. Going 4-2 at a competitive FNM, is not what I would call tier 1.
March 6, 2012 4:11 p.m.
The key to making a good werewolf deck is either making them very fast, or making them pump super big, or removing your foe's creatures.
I call that the Holy Trinity. Get them out fast. Pump them up big, and then remove whatever is in your way.
bad werewolf decks do only 1 of the Holy Trinity things. average werewolf decks to 2 of them. The best do all of them.
My werewolf deck does all 3 of those things. I have 19 Burn, removal cards, in my main deck, to get rid of any would be blockers. I have 20 cards, that pump my creatures up big.
But the key innovative tricks in my werewolf deck are:
I run 3 birds of paradise in my deck. that gets out 1 daybreak ranger, or immerwolf out by turn 2. and a Huntmaster an or Garruk relentless out turn 3. You cant consistently do that with 2 cmc scorned villagers. Plus birds draw hate, and chump block fliers, and can pump them for alternate win con with Wolf Run.
The next key is Phyrexian Metamorph. if you run 4 mayors, 4 immerwolves, 3 Metamorphs, it gets ridiculously good. You can copy opponents threats. you can copy a flipped mayor or nightfall predator.
The next key: is I Chandra Reverberate Brimstone Volley, which is awesome. I also Chandra reverberete Green Sun's zenith, to search up 2 Huntmasters, or 2 werewolves, into play at the same time for the cost of 1.
The next key: Garruk searching up Metamorph on demand. Metamorph is awesome enough itself, but you usually have to draw 1. being able to search up a Metamorph, on demand is even more awesome.
The next key is good play, sideboard: sideboarding.
My sideboard is 3 B. Acts. 3 Tunnel Ignus. 3 Autumn's veil, 2 naturalize, and 2 surgical extraction, and 2 Grafdigger's Cage.My werewolf deck, when combined with my sideboard, good play, gives me answers for almost anything everything.When I look at the sideboards, of most werewolf decks. Their sideboards, are treated more like an extended maybeboard, then a sideboard.
Next key is to have a lot of cool awesome synergistical, interchangeable combos, and to min, max everything you can. thats why I have 20 pumpers, 19 blocker removal cards, 13 token generators
Next Key: Throw more BS out then the other player can handle. Even if my opponent removes my werewolves like crazy, Some, Most, of my werewolves, can usually kill 1 creature, pump my werewolves, and wolves, for 1 turn, create 1 2/2 wolf token. And usually that 2/2 wolf token comes into play as a 4/4 to 7/6 wolf token., before they are removed.
Next Key Alternate win cons. Kessig + Inkmoth + birds. Kessig + Birds. Put out a chandra turn 3, and pop off chandra's ultimate ability for win. Chandra reverberate Brimstone for 10 damage to foe's face for win. Phyrexian Metamorph cooy foe's win con creature, or artifact.
March 6, 2012 4:15 p.m.
Fine, I won't post anymore here. But if you want to keep the discussion on topic of your trade, then you probably shouldnt have made the comment you made about werewolf not being a tier 1 deck.
March 6, 2012 4:33 p.m.
Jmickey701 says... #21
I think you should just listen to elesh. He hit the nail on the head. And Heinm ill have to wait and see if thats what i want to do, im trying to build this deck by trading as little snaps as possible. But Youll be the first to know though.
March 6, 2012 4:37 p.m.
Ok sounds good. Yeah the only other card that I would have been interested in is liliana but I just finished my playset the other night. But yeah. Just let me know.
March 6, 2012 5:28 p.m.
No to be an attention jerk, but my deck, *UPDATED* Huntsmaster Werewolves is very viable, and extremely powerful, give it a shot if youd like :D
mikedh1 says... #2
Sounds like you either just made a werewolf deck, or are going to make a werewolf deck.
Curious about your build, if you have made your werewolf deck already.
March 6, 2012 11:13 a.m.