Trade Overhaul Coming Soon
TappedOut forum
Posted on May 18, 2014, 6:48 p.m. by yeaGO
Request for opinions and comments
Hello all, Firstly, please take care to keep your responses as brief as possible succinct. If possible use list format and also take extra care to read the full discussion before you comment.
Current problems
1) comments on trade binders are a mess
2) private email exchanges are prone to scammers
3) the current trade system is sparse, doesn't keep a good history and people don't use it
4) vouches aren't connected to trades
Proposed changes
1) Using the "Initiate Trade" button creates a private chat lobby between you and the other person. You can both take your time to fill out your offers before finalizing. The comments don't show up on your profile or on the comment stream.
2) When a trade is initiated, the content and parties of that trade becomes public to all (but not the negotiation chat that's between the two parties)
3) Current vouching system will go away and be replaced with a list of successful trades.
4) Language will change in order to discouraged use private email and instead keep discussion to the private trade chat lobby.
5) A new trade hub will be created that shows recently updated binders and allows people to feature their binder
6) Potentially make trades cost a feature token or Upgraded Users only. I know, I know, nobody wants to pay anything but this covers the cost of the great efforts we are going to to prevent scammers.
smash10101 says... #3
Point 6 would make me never trade here again, though I can't say I trade here often anyways. Other than that, I really like the proposed changes.
May 18, 2014 6:58 p.m.
Well this site isn't meant to be primarily a trading board, I consider trading to be a bonus. If people are coming here only to trade, to me that defeats the purpose because its reputation that keeps people honest.
May 18, 2014 7:05 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #5
Dem overreactions to a site that you use every day for free requesting financial aid to make improvements.
May 18, 2014 7:07 p.m.
4 bothers me a bit, only because email is more convient in terms of being able to answer when you have time instead of 'now'. But for the most part, changes are fine.
May 18, 2014 7:11 p.m.
ryuzaki32667 says... #7
Maybe something similar to what deckbox has for negotiations where both sides of the trade is shown side by side. When i trade on here I use an app called mtg familiar that shows the trade this way and makes easy to be able to make the sides even up.
Your end A - 1.00
B - 2.00
C - 1.00
Total - 4.00
Other side
A - 4.00
Total - 4.00
It also features a feedback system, users are able to see all past trades (not the specific negotiations but the trade and feedback). for each trade each party can leave a comment on how the trade went, like fast to ship and even included extras, and give a +1 (their version of vouches/successful trades).
But the major reason I trade on here more is that it is much easier to view the binder, cause sometimes a trade is just short by a little on one end and its easy to find something nice to fill the spot when your able to just see the whole binder vs going through multiple pages like on thier.
May 18, 2014 7:12 p.m.
The side by side trade view is done :) not released yet. My inspiration was Diablo 3.
May 18, 2014 7:15 p.m.
ryuzaki32667 says... #10
How will current vouches transfer to the new, good trades completed? Or would we all start at scratch again?
May 18, 2014 7:19 p.m.
Could someone maybe explain a few of the problems in a little more detail? I don't really understand how the current system is that flawed. I think it would be nice to have vouches connected to successful trades somehow. But I don't really understand why the comments on binders are such a mess? I haven't really had any issues. And why is emailing any more prone to scammers than chatting on the site? I think the only changes we really need are refiguring the vouch system, and possibly keeping a trade history. Other than that, most of the proposed changes don't really seem necessary to me.
May 18, 2014 7:31 p.m.
Scammers can give out any identity in email and can change that identity between users. It's also hard to follow several email chains to prove someone scammed multiple people. Also, people put information like their email or addressin public comments. Those commentsget spammed out to everyone following that binder. Also it spills out onto the wall in many cases, too.
May 18, 2014 7:39 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #14
I think making trades another benefit of being an Upgraded User is good. If you have the cards in paper then you probably buy packs. If you buy packs, you can hold off on one pack to upgrade your account. It is still $5 right?
May 18, 2014 7:41 p.m.
Yep. Would help reduce scammers too although upgraded users have done it before in one case.
May 18, 2014 7:48 p.m.
I appreciate the marking of successful trades (instead of ambiguous "vouches"). Will these successes accumulate if I trade multiple times with the same user? I think repeated trades among the same members can, more than anything, prove someone is legit (it's like repeat business at a restaurant).
May 18, 2014 7:51 p.m.
I still don't understand the first 2 points. You can change the identity of the email address, but if its the same tappedout user name its still easy to link. I suppose somebody could create multiple dummy accounts, but I think most people don't trade with someone unless they've been active for a while and/or send first.
If people really want to keep email addresses private, wasn't there at one time a feature where, once you accepted a trade, that person was given your email/shipping address? What about just fixing that feature (I seem to remember it having problems) and advising users about it? That would keep email addresses private and not spam everyone who follows the binder.
Having everything in a private chat just doesn't seem necessary. Also, I tend to follow along with some users' negotiations to get an idea of who wants what, what they value it at, what cards are being moved, etc even when I'm not involved in the trade. It can also let me warn someone if it looks like they're being taken advantage of (I've done this once or twice, and I've seen other users do it too). If all of that was put into a private chat, it would make it more difficult.
May 18, 2014 7:52 p.m.
smash10101 says... #18
I'm not saying trading should be free, I'm saying I won't pay for it. Trading is not why I'm here, but I do use it occasionally. If trades were upgraded users only, that would be reasonable in my mind. I didn't notice that that was an option on point 6. I meant that I don't like the idea of paying a feature token every time you make a trade. A system like that would also be easy to circumvent. When would you pay the token? We could finish negotiations and do the trade without hitting submit, and not spend a token if that was when we spent it, or if negotiations failed, we would lose a token if it was taken at the beginning.
May 18, 2014 8 p.m.
That feature you mention is being fixed.
Interesting thoughts on private commenting...
May 18, 2014 8:08 p.m.
Instead of vouches, you could have "List of completed trades" with upgraded and nonupgraded users. You could also put in a function that lets you put one name in a day and have the day it was created. On average, I think that people get in about a trade every two weeks, so if anybody has more (with the one-a-day change), they'll be subject to investigation.
You could also say that a person has to comment 7 meaningful times a week for 6 weeks before they're able to trade, and say that setting up a binder on a deck to circumvent that is not allowed.
I like the trade lobby idea. If you set this up, it's barely one step to PMs. One thing that will answer kmcree is that you can allow someone into the PM (say, if he thinks somebody is getting scammed, he can ask that person to let them in to see if the trade is fair). Maybe in the PM lobby at the top, there's a "trade on the board" feature that you don't have to use if you're just chatting.
That's a non-trader's two cents.
May 18, 2014 8:08 p.m.
"Dem overreactions to a site that you use every day for free requesting financial aid to make improvements."
This.
Also, would it be possible to have the TCGplayer prices on T/O updated in either real-time or at least a few times a week? I've noticed some users swearing by the listed prices on T/O when the actual prices for the cards were sometimes different by several dollars per card.
While I understand the logic behind adding some sort of price to allow trading on T/O, I don't necessarily support it. There are plenty of users who aren't upgraded who are fantastic traders. Instead, maybe stress that a person with zero/few vouches/good trades send first, or something.
It's not perfect, but if someone has to spend money to trade cards online, I imagine they'd just go elsewhere.
May 18, 2014 8:09 p.m.
smash10101 says... #22
Matsi883, while I like the "person has to comment 7 meaningful times a week for 6 weeks before they're able to trade," idea, that would be just about impossible to track. How would the site know what's meaningful?
I do like the idea of banning "trade binder" decks once the new system is up.
As for kmcree's thoughts on the rip off interventions, well, you can look up prices on TCG (which is linked on each card's page on T/O). And it sounds like yeaGO! is working on something that would auto show prices. (It should have an option to manually set the price, so alters, things with no TCG price, and damaged cards.)
May 18, 2014 8:16 p.m.
Maybe I'm just only one who follows other users' trades, and if so then the private chat thing could probably work. I guess I just don't think the current system is that flawed. Its not hard to just unsubscribe from a user's binder/wall that you aren't trading with anymore. The one thing I would suggest is to maybe have comments on binders and/or walls not show up on the front page "recent activity" section and keep that just to deck comments and forum/Q&A posts.
May 18, 2014 8:17 p.m.
ryuzaki32667 says... #24
Ha I would be under investigation, I trade a lot on here. Mostly cause i love the fact that i can trade for a whole new deck very shortly, my record is a full 75(mono black devotion) in 1 week with completed negotiations (just took slighter longer to actually get the cards). But I personally don't like all of the pending trades on top of the binder so i stop once i get like 5-6 active going. I keep an ongoing paper version of my trades to keep track of each one easier.
After a while you will have already traded with everyone at your shop and wouldn't be able to find a certain card(s). Tappedout is like being able to go to 50+ LGS to trade with a bunch of different people.
May 18, 2014 8:21 p.m.
It is tough, though, to keep track of who's who when you're looking at potential trades. Also, can T/O be changed to automatically remove cards from your binder when you trade them away? I've been caught in some awkward spots before after I forgot to delete some cards I no longer had.
May 18, 2014 8:22 p.m.
kmcree Your input is interesting... I will hold off on the private lobby for phase 1.
ryuzaki32667 thanks for your input. I don't mind your high traffic... but what will you do if trading goes Upgrade Only? :P
May 18, 2014 8:25 p.m.
Also, for the record, I'm not at all opposed to making trading "upgraded users only". Its only $5, and I've probably traded easily $300 worth of cards I otherwise wouldn't have been able to. Doesn't seem like its too much to ask.
May 18, 2014 8:28 p.m.
ryuzaki32667 says... #28
Be slightly saddened at first, but would find a way to do so. It is like someone said before we all buy packs and go to fnm, skipping 1 week or 1 pack and upgrading shouldn't be a problem. It could be seen as like the magic country club, special benifits to members of the club.
Although my issue would be I don't a paypal account, Maybe some way for user to become upgraded after certain accomplishments (no idea what would be classified as such), or nominations by the community to get the bump up (it could be like our hall of fame). Or an alternate payment option like sending actual cash to somewhere.
May 18, 2014 8:34 p.m.
Code to have the system check for the seven a week, and have somebody report the person if they're junk comments.
May 18, 2014 8:54 p.m.
Rhinowarrior says... #32
Point six is ridiculous. Couldn't i still go on to someone's profile and request a trade and then complete that trade via email? Bah
May 18, 2014 10:33 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #33
I would be ok with point 6, but I do think it would drive away potential new traders. That is not a requirement the other sites, and they might move to them to trade. I hope that point is considered because new interest in trading will keep it from stagnating.
Be able to keep notes on each trade. I currently use the address box for that on the edit trade binder page. Note to self need to back that info up.
Some sort of negative or neutral option for trades. If it took too long, wrong cards, did not work to make it right.
4ish. I was going to say a grievances forum, but that might be too much of a sanctioned thing for here. I do not think you want to be mainly a trade hub.
May 18, 2014 10:52 p.m.
Didgeridooda notes on each trade huh? in one place or on the trade itself?
May 18, 2014 11:09 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #35
When the pending trades section gets its overhaul, please reformat it so that it's easier to see who is expecting what cards. The current system is cluttered, and isn't separated by trader very well. It would look a lot nicer if all of one trader's cards were in one column, and all of the others' were in another column. I know this got mentioned in a previous post, but it was in a slightly different context.
Making the pending trades section more readable will help keep track of not only your own trades, but the pending trades of those you wish to trade with. It will make it easier to tell which of their cards are off limits at the time.
May 18, 2014 11:17 p.m.
new system hits in 5 minutes. you tell me what you think =)
May 18, 2014 11:19 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #37
It would also be convenient to list the details of completed trades. If the cards involved in a user's trade history are public then they are much less likely to try to rip off another user. You can then see a user's past trades to help determine if they're honest with the value of their cards. A special comments section could be added to this to denote altered/signed cards that differ from their posted prices.
This would cause an issue with price variance over time affecting the perception of a trade, but that would be easy to fix. Because T/O links to the TCG prices of almost every card, a price stamp could be added to the trade history, showing the price of the cards at the time the trade was initiated.
May 18, 2014 11:22 p.m.
GureiSeion says... #38
It's the trading feature that's had me planning on upgrading soon (once a few current life events die down and I can get back to being more active), though now I'll want to see how this plays out first.
I highly doubt I'd have given the system a shot if it had required an additional cost beyond postage.
May 18, 2014 11:32 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #39
I like the [successful trades] section, though it's formatting is pretty off. Mine is pretty jumbled, and it would be nice if it were just a column with one trade per line.
May 18, 2014 11:37 p.m.
I'm not able to access my binder. I just get the ornithopters page. I can, however, look at other people's binders. The text looks huge and not properly formatted. Also, it currently still says "vouched for by:..." in addition to the "successful trades" section. Are we keeping both of those? Or replacing one with the other?
May 18, 2014 11:49 p.m.
Go to the other person's binder and click on the 'View pending trade' link. You will be able to flag them as accepted.
New vouches won't be accepted but legacy ones will remain there until we get some feedback as to what to do with them.
May 18, 2014 11:51 p.m.
miracleHat says... #43
Wow, that is really different. I think that i cancelled some of the trades that are marked successful... i am assuming that the vouches go away because currently, they have a weird text thing done to them. Also, will your binder price come back online at some point? It was fun tracking how much my rares/mythics were worth :)
May 18, 2014 11:55 p.m.
Alright, I can see my own binder now. The text still looks huge though. Its definitely bigger than the text anywhere else on the site. Is it staying that way or just still having bugs worked out?
May 18, 2014 11:55 p.m.
Price is still there. Look closer =)
Text/Css/Formatting issues will clear up soon.
May 18, 2014 11:57 p.m.
miracleHat says... #46
Oh, how about dem apples! With the vouches, I don't see any point in continuing them. Also, could you implement the simple way of adding or subtracting the amount of a specific card without having to go to the edit button and all of that work.
May 19, 2014 12:01 a.m.
I appreciate the effort going into this, but I am just not sure if the previous system needed that much tinkering. Its going to take time and trades to tell though.
May 19, 2014 12:07 a.m.
Vouches removed per miracleHat. Easier editing is a separate issue and we'll put it on the list.
almerican ... Thanks to all the feedback in this thread I scaled back the changes in this latest update. Most of the work is simply organizational.
May 19, 2014 12:09 a.m.
Regulus1010 says... #50
Hey yeaGO!, is this overhaul in any way related to an issue I'm seeing on my binder right now, where my "Wants" are no longer showing up in yellow on another user's "Haves" list? Vice versa, I would presume. It just makes locating what I want on someone else's binder, or whether I have anything they want, infinitely easier. Thanks in advance and also for all of your hard work here!
DrLitebur says... #2
Wait a second...in order to use the resources of trading on this website now, we will now need to have trade tokens? Honestly, that's messed up. I use this site to do very sporadic trading at best, but still. This is gonna drive down membership.
May 18, 2014 6:57 p.m.