Where are all the Rakshasa Deathdealers?
Standard forum
Posted on Nov. 10, 2015, 1:35 p.m. by UpperDeckerTaco
So I have come to the opinion about this standard format: having solid 2 drops in your deck that are good at any stage of the game is where you need to be in this "aggro first, grindy later" kind of format.
Cards like that are Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip, Hangarback Walker, Soulfire Grand Master, Den Protector, etc...
So where are all the Rakshasa Deathdealers? It is a solid 2 drop on turn 2 that is just a straight beat stick and requires your opponents to answer it, just like any other threat. It protects itself, and if go unblocked or on an empty board, it just smashes in for huge amounts of damage. Abzan used to run it in their aggro builds ways back, then all of a sudden Languish gets printed and people almost deem it unplayable. WHY? Languish does the same thing to the other cards mentioned! BUT the Deathdealer can actually outlast a Languish with mana open. I understand there are cards that deal with the Deathdealer in the format: Silkwrap, Crackling Doom, Fiery Impulse/Wild Slash if you don't have open mana, but these cards all do the same thing to the creatures previously stated, and they can't even finish an opponent as fast as Deathdealer can. Just because there are answers to a card in the format, doesn't make the card unplayable. There are dozens of answers to most threats in the format and those answers I previously stated have been in the format for some time now, but the Deathdealer IS a must answer, and if it isn't, more than likely you are going to destroy your opponent. Also, even if they have an answer, you have the ability to regenerate, and I know regen doesn't work against -X/-X effects or exile effects, but what does?! Exactly!
Did anyone else come up with the same consensus as I did? What are your thoughts on the matter? Let's see if this Cat Demon can make a comeback.
Rakshasa Deathdealer faces the same issues that Hangarback Walker does in that exile is a "complete" answer (no regen, no thopters), so I don't think that's going to help the situation.
November 10, 2015 2:02 p.m.
Idk about y'all but I'm playing 4 each of Rakshasa Deathdealer and Hangarback Walker in my Abzan list and I much prefer hitting a turn 2 DeathCat than Hangarback. Both are awesome and Hangarback is definitely better in the long game, but I agree I think Rakshasa Deathdealer could be played more.
The thing is, I would totally drop it in favor of my last 3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar... so that is why he is not seeing much play, along with the reasons listed above. Complete Disregard and Silkwrap are just good.
November 10, 2015 2:11 p.m. Edited.
Who said it wasn't being played because there are answers to it??? The biggest hindrance that Rakshasa Deathdealer faces is the mana investment it requires. Sure it's a 2 drop, but you essentially have to have mana available for it every turn after that. Playing it on turn 2 essentially means you can't play anything for the next couple of turns. It's not a threat if you don't have mana available, so curving out becomes a bad thing and not something you typically want to do (it's essentially a vanilla 2/2 for 2 if you do curve out). It also has no evasion, so it can be chump blocked all day long. This means your opponent can develop their board state and go wider than you because your stuck leaving mana available to regen or pump and not developing your own board state. This makes it bad against aggro decks that are already trying to go wide and bad against control decks because of the combination of exile and sacrifice effects they can run. Also, I know the exile effects have been mentioned but I want to add that 99% of the time your opponent is going to wait for you to pump it and then exile it before damage. So not only does it require a heavy mana investment and stall your board state, your more than likely unable to play anything else and wasting your turn when it finally does get answered.
Yes, I know it used to see play, but trust me, Languish and exile effects are not the reason it doesn't see play any more. That has more to do with the meta and the fact that there are better options for decks to use right now against the most popular decks currently being played. In a different meta or maybe if your local meta is nothing like the mainstream meta, then Rakshasa Deathdealer definitely has potential. Unfortunately, in the current meta most decks can't afford to invest that much mana and turns into something that could potentially do nothing if chump blocked or answered.
In comparison to the other cards mentioned, Jace simply has more upside with the card filtering and flipping to a planeswalker. Hangerback at the worst comes in as a 1/1 that replaces itself when it dies and at best grows to be a large enough threat that becomes several small threats when finally answered. Soulfire Grand Master has pseudo recursion with it's activated ability which is nice, however Lightning Helix is a good card, making all of your burn spells become a helix is simply great. Den Protector I probably wouldn't include in this group because it's more or less played as a 5 drop but, it does have pseudo evasion with it's first ability and has essentially what is immediate value in being able to flip it and recur something from your graveyard plus it has the option to be played as a 2 drop and be an early blocker. These are all just better options in the current meta compared to Rakshasa Deathdealer when you have to invest lots of mana and multiple turns into it and could potentially see no return even after doing so.
November 10, 2015 3:59 p.m.
Here let me ask you something would you rather have a 3/3 on turn 2 or a 2/2? Ok now would you rather have a 3/3 and a 4/4 on turn 3 or a 2/2 and a 4/4 or just a 2/2 that becomes a 4/4 until the end of turn? How about on turn 4 do you want 2 2 drops or a 3/3 a 4/4 and a siege rhino? Great conversation.... The reason abzan is good right now is because its curve is stupid it just goes 1 drop thats a 3/3 on turn 2 then a 4/4 on 3 and a 4/5 on 4 and when you have deathdealer you just cant curve out like that and therefore its bad right now.
November 10, 2015 4:56 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #7
All of your reasons about it being bad I do not see. The old Abzan decks in the last played 4 Wardens, 4 Fleecemane, and 4 Deathdealer...we lost Fleecemane, so Hangarback fits that spot fine. Removal is slower now, and who cares if they blow a removal on it, they HAVE to! And a good player knows when to pump on turn 3...you attack, if they block, you pump and remove, if they have a removal for it, so be it, it's a removal that would hit Anafenza and now it doesn't. It's a removal that would have hit Hangarback, that didn't. You are not wasting any resources by filtering mana into it. You keep your hand full, they lose a card from hand. If they don't remove it, then it can just pound them in the face. If they don't block, and you have the ability to play a turn 3 Anafenza, then don't pump and play the Anafenza, you snuck in 2 points of damage. That's all an aggro deck does is incremental amouts of damage and finishes strong. I like TheHroths take on it and it's what I came to as well for my Abzan deck. What other 2 drop pressures as much as Deathdealer???? Hangarback takes a long time to build, and if Silkwrapped, then it's worthless, if Deathdealer gets hit by the Wrap, Dromoka's Command becomes so much better.
November 10, 2015 5:33 p.m. Edited.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #8
Also, if you have a Warden survive to be able to pump it, that's fine. Same concept. Pump it and swing. Turn 3 play your hand. You won't ALWAYS have a Warden, Deathdealer, Hangarback, Anafenza, and Rhino to start out the game making your curve weird, but each creature can win on its own backed be removal.
November 10, 2015 5:37 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #9
The point that was made earlier about having to invest mana into it / leave it up is ridiculous. Being able to threaten a pump / regen is an advantage as it will affect your opponent's play without you even having to activate.
For example, leaving up mana during an attack means it often won't be blocked (or card advantage if they do block), and then there's this thing called the 2nd main phase where you can use your mana. If they kill it while you're tapped out, then oh well, it's a two-drop.
Conversely, it's also an excellent blocker against all the combat trick-happy aggro decks out there, as it can force them to use their Titan's Strength etc. on their weenies while you leave mana for removal or activations, depending on your opponent's plays.
In that vein, I've played around with a Bant Flash build that uses Warden and Hangarback, and I really wanted to play Sultai for Deathdealer but White utility was too good to pass up.
So ya, it's a really good card and you would kick peoples asses with it if you sleeve it up. It's certainly not 'unplayable.'
November 10, 2015 6:31 p.m.
I have won my last 4 FNM's with this deck: No Gideon? No Problem!. Rakshasa is great, Hangarback is superb, and Siege Rhino and Anafenza are as strong as ever.
Warden of the First Tree is my mvp...I've actually managed to win so many grindy matches with his last ability sometimes twice in a turn to close it out.
November 10, 2015 6:39 p.m.
see TheHroth kinda proves my point, in a local setting sure it can be useful, either they're not prepared for it because it's not mainstream or your not facing other mainstream decks. But your not seeing the pros use it because it's not good on a consistent basis (just good sometimes) against the attarka red decks, the esper token decks, the megamorph vaiants, etc. which they will see repeatedly. It's not hard to chump block it with something that has 2 power when you attack with mana up, forcing you to either spend the mana to regen/pump and do nothing else that turn. If you don't you've played a grizzly bear on turn 2 that provided zero extra value (something all the other cards you mentioned do). Plus all the decks I mentioned the pros seeing regularly are trying to go wide and build a board state. Rakshasa Deathdealer doesn't have to be answered when you can produce tons of cheap chump blockers, and conversely it can only block 1 attacker itself regardless of how much mana you leave up. More often than not against the mainstream decks it becomes a wasted mana investment. You lack the ability to build your board state to combat the mainstream decks if you leave mana consistently open for it and you make all your reason for playing it irrelevant if you don't leave mana open.
November 10, 2015 11:02 p.m.
@UpperDeckerTaco, to your point about Silkwrap and hangarback. While yes that is a hindrance, it's not a reason to avoid hangarback. Hangarback can be a 2, 4, 6... drop. In other words, it falls into multiple slots on the curve making it more valuable as the game goes on. Also, like I said in my other post, decks are trying to go wide right now. The hangarback doesn't prevent the decks that are running it from doing so. It's much easier to leave up 1 colorless mana if you play it as a 2 drop than it is to leave up 2 or 4 mana of multiple colors for the Rakshasa Deathdealer. Plus, the thopter tokens it leaves behind when it's not exiled is more value for the mana investment than you'll get from Rakshasa Deathdealer (which could potentially do nothing). It's not that rakshasa is bad, it's just not good right now in the current mainstream meta which is why you don't see more people playing it.
November 10, 2015 11:20 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #13
I still think it's crazy to write off such a good card. We're barely a month into the new Standard, so it's pretty safe to say that many good cards that currently don't see play will find a home as the format evolves. What pros are playing in early November is not the end all be all.
November 11, 2015 12:42 a.m.
You know, I've got a feeling that the BFZ meta will not evolve very much.
In my LGS everyone has sort of settled in to what they will play for the rest of this expansion.
November 11, 2015 8:36 a.m.
Its also really bad against crackling doomm which is a veery popular card right now
November 11, 2015 8:38 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #16
EmblemMan Name a creature card that isn't bad against Crackling Doom lmao.
November 11, 2015 12:04 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #17
I can think of one: Rakshasa Deathdealer. Its starting power is low enough to duck under it. It costs less than Crackling Doom, making it a tempo win for you if they want to trade those cards. Its power can even be manipulated to save a more important creature if necessary.
(maybe I'm trolling just a little bit :D)
November 11, 2015 1 p.m.
hangarback walker is bad against crackling doom thats part of the reason why hes the 2 drop of choice im not giving you bad reasons I am giving you legitimate reasons why he doesnt see play
November 11, 2015 3:51 p.m.
I would argue Hangarback Walker is really GOOD against Crackling Doom...
When I am playing against decks I know have Crackling Doom, I will hold a Hangarback at 3 counters. This lets me pump in response to good ol' Crackle, to bring him to 4 power, so that I can sacrifice it rather than Siege Rhino or Anafenza, the Foremost, and get 4 Thopters out of it.
November 11, 2015 4:03 p.m.
allthingsMTG says... #20
I have been getting 1-2nd place with my 
midrange deck and I have no problem with playing a deathdealer any time I draw it whether it is turn 2 or turn 7, I feel like it is a little underrated. Just my opinion of course
Wabbbit says... #2
It is a strong card, but the only list that really ever played it was Abzan, as you said, and Hangarback Walker has supplanted it as the turn two play of choice. Everything you say is correct, Hangarback Walker is just simply better in most cases. Maybe with the rise of exiling effects (Silkwrap, Complete Disregard etc.) it will make a comeback. In my opinion it's still a very good card, there just aren't many decks besides Abzan that want to run that color combo.
November 10, 2015 1:57 p.m.