Question about new omnath
Standard forum
Posted on Sept. 9, 2020, 3:32 p.m. by GenericToaster
Hi guys! So the wording on new Omnath, Locus of Creation says "if this is the first time this ability has resolved this turn."
If you played a land, got one trigger on omnath, blink omnath somehow, and than play another land, would it go back to the first part of the ability? Or would it trigger the second part? If it goes back to the first, would that mean that its a "new ability" from a "new source" since it got blinked?
I'm sure that there's something in the big ol' rulebook somewhere, but that's a lot of reading and I'd rather ask if someone knows off hand. Thanks!
DragonSliver9001 says... #3
if you then play another land, it will still count as the first trigger because the omnath is considered a new object.
saluma: i wouldn't say its "identity" is destroyed, its just treated as a new object
September 10, 2020 12:06 a.m.
VampDemigod says... #4
I’m going to answer your question in a slightly different way. Let’s say you have new Omnath and a Spark Double on the board (technically there never Standard legal together, but let’s ignore that fact).
So you have these two Omnaths. Each one keeps track of land drops on its own, so if you play a land, you will gain 8 life, then get WWUURRGG, then hit the dome for 8 life.
Now, back to your question. When a card changes zones, any effects that were keeping track of a card forget which card it was (this is slightly simplified). So, when you blink Omnath, the “first” Omnath’s landfall counter doesn’t transfer to the “second” Omnath, because they’re different creatures.
September 10, 2020 1:05 p.m.
GenericToaster says... #5
Thank you guys so much, I wasn't sure if the "Xth time this has resolved" had specifically been worded to get around that or not.
September 10, 2020 1:07 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #6
You’re welcome! BTW, in order for it to work as you thought it did, it would probably be worded “X time an ability with this text resolves” “X time an ability on a card named Omnath(rest of name) resolves” or “X time a land enters your side of the battlefield from your hand this turn”
September 10, 2020 1:11 p.m.
DragonSliver9001 says... #7
VampDemigod its not the effect keeping track of the card, its the card keeping track of its own effects. your example was really convoluted and weird.
September 10, 2020 1:15 p.m.
DragonSliver9001 says... #8
DeinoStinkus: not sure who you're talking to since you didn't tag anyone. if you mean me, i wasn't being rude. the example was a weird one. the question was in regard to blinking a single omnath, so an example involving a Spark Double was unnecessary.
September 10, 2020 1:23 p.m.
DragonSliver9001 says... #9
DeinoStinkus: then plz tag me. i don't auto subscribe to things, so unless i'm constantly refreshing and checking "recent comments", i can't know you're trying to respond to me unless you tag me.
September 10, 2020 1:29 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #10
DragonSliver9001 I brought up Spark Double in an attempt to make it easier to visualize how the ability’s trigger was kept track of by each “Omnath”, as just saying that “it’s a new Omnath each time it etbs” could still lead to confusion.
September 10, 2020 1:43 p.m.
DragonSliver9001 says... #11
VampDemigod: i mean i "guess" it could lead to confusion? never seen it tho. usually just "its a new object with no memory of its past" clears it right up.
September 10, 2020 1:45 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #12
My friend who’s been playing for a few years texted me for clarification and I ended up having to explain that just because the ability talks about it’s own resolution, it resets on etb and doesn’t refer to tother copies.
I’m not saying I expect everyone to have the same reaction, I just figured that if my explanation was unnecessarily confusing to the reader, someone else’s would suffice.
September 10, 2020 1:57 p.m.
For future reference, TappedOut has a Rules Q&A section of the site specifically devoted to posting questions about card rulings and interactions between cards. It also means that answers to questions (just like the ones posted here) are format independent so that everyone can look in the same spot.
As for the specifics of this, there are two key parts to this:
The first is the wording on Omnath's ability: "if this is the (X-th) time this ability has resolved this turn." If the wording was "if this the first land to enter the battlefied under your control this turn..." then then the ability would care about the total number of lands you've played in a turn. But because it's the former, it only cards about how many lands the Object (in this case Omnath) has seen enter.
The sencond specific here is that whenever an obejct changes zones (i.e. battlefield to graveyard, battlefield to exile, exile to battlefield, etc.) then it becomes a new instance of itself and losses all memory of the previous instance (with the exception of a few cards like Skullbriar, the Walking Grave who specifically state what information gets retained).
So pulling the two togehter, becuase in this example Omnath would be changing zones (blink usually refers to Battlefield to Exile to Battlefield), Omnath becomes a new instance of the card and has no memory of the number of lands which have previously entered this turn, so you would start counting from zero again.
Same thing if you played a land, Played Omnath and then played another land - It would still be at a count of one.
saluma says... #2
When a permanent blinks it leaves the battlefield and thus its "identety" is destoryed, then it enters the battlefield again with/as an new identety. So if you play omnath then play a land the first mode of the landfall triggers. Because its the first land he sees. Then you blink him, creating a new omnath. Then when you play your second land the first mode of the landfall will trigger becuase its the first land the "new" omnath sees.
I hope I didnt overcomplicated this, its late and Im really tired.
September 9, 2020 3:51 p.m.