How good are the fetches in standard really as they only grab a basic and needle you for 1?
Standard forum
Posted on Oct. 25, 2014, 11:52 p.m. by ColdHeartedSith
So yes they thin your deck a bit and you re-shuffle which may be good or bad, but people like Brad Nelson are still running like 25 land. I would think with fetches you would go with like 23 so once you fetch a few times your drawing more spells. Just looking back too 6 months ago when it was said if wizards put fetches in standard again it would ruin standard and make the standard constructed entry too expensive. my observation is everyone wants all the fetches for modern but in standard they just seem to be adding to the pain of pain lands and confluence. I want a real discussion please nobody say the real reason fetches are so good is because they grab shocklands we all know that! Instead lets hear from those who played fetches standard last time around.
The deck thinning theory has always been very weak water, both to long time players, pros, playtesting with that in mind, and your wallet. That 1 point can very often mean life or death to increase your odds for cards by ~ 1 percent.
October 26, 2014 midnight
GoldGhost012 says... #4
The fetches really shine with Courser of Kruphix . Don't like what's on top? Crack a fetch and shuffle it away.
October 26, 2014 12:02 a.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #5
Ok so Courser of Kruphix is an exception, as landfall isn't a thing besides him. I guess maybe that is why abzan is so ahead of the curve.
October 26, 2014 12:09 a.m.
austin11223344 says... #6
The top decks aren't playing many fetches, and temer decks with Courser of Kruphix arn't playing it either. In other words fetchs suck in standard. This also means their prices are going to go dwon
October 26, 2014 12:11 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #7
They're good with courser, and a great Delve enabler, but 90% of the time, if they were the same colours as painlands, I'd rather have pains. (Yes, I realise they aren't).
October 26, 2014 12:17 a.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #8
There is a lot of land damage happening and being skipped so watch that like a hawk when your opponent is playing pains fetches and confluence and your winning.
October 26, 2014 12:25 a.m.
Murderous Cut and Empty the Pits become a lot worse without fetchlands. That being said, I run 3 Evolving Wilds instead of real fetches, because they fix so much better in tricolor decks.
October 26, 2014 12:29 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #10
Fetches are just the epidemy of convenience. They add near perfect fixing and that's really all they do. The thing thing is only relevant if your game lasts like 15-20 turns and even then not by much
October 26, 2014 12:30 a.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #11
I hope they print example: Battle Scarred wasteland Land-mountain plains Battle Scarred wasteland has sacrifice a creature when Battle scarred wasteland enters the battlefeild or it enters tapped. SACK LAND alternative to SHOCK .It would be cool to have a fresh new option that dosnt cost 3 life for untapped shock.
October 26, 2014 12:42 a.m.
IAmKingTony says... #12
I love it when my opponent is playing tons of life to just have lands out.
October 26, 2014 12:48 a.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #13
my last was for both formats of course but with m16 being the last core and cycles going for only 6 months its possible they could do something crazy fore the last core. It would just make standard feel modern for 6 months until fetches cycled
October 26, 2014 12:49 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #14
A few thing: fetches in standard 6 months ago would have been way different than fetches in standard now. Obviously because of the shockland interaction. Currently, though, they do fix pretty well, and they fuel delve spells. I am playing grixis control right now, with 4 Dig Through Time , 3 Murderous Cut s, and an Empty the Pits , so fetches act as a sort of ritual effect as well as fixing my mana quite well. I run a total of 7 fetches with 8 basics and 10 non basics. the deck thinning is only noticeable if you are playing a lot of games, and although it doesn't seem like much, it does increase the odds of drawing non lands later in the game.
@ColdHeartedSith: Sets will be in standard for 18 months, not 6. There will be a rotation every 6 months, but a given block (starting with khans) will be in standard for a total of 18 months.
October 26, 2014 1:51 a.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #15
No the last set will have less time a lot less and I was not saying that 6 months ago people were for some reason after the last set in the block was already out were talking about how fetches would ruin standard. 6 months ago there was speculation about khans and arguments over what Maro said about the fetches and that he was saying he wouldnt reprint em. There was a picture of a Wooded Foothill or whatever the R/G fetch is called spoiled before M15 released and it was called a fake. Up until nearly 3 weeks before pre-rel Khans there was still claims wizards would never reprint fetches and it would ruin standard and then foot in mouth. Far as I can tell all their claims were wrong , Courser of kruphix is ruining standard lol.
October 26, 2014 2:56 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #16
you mean the last set in the khans block will have a lot less time? If that is what you mean, it actually is not true. The way they are going to do it is KTK, Fate Reforged, "louie", and m16. when the block after m16 ( we will call it block 1 for now) is released, theros block will rotate out. when block 2 is released, KTK and fate reforged will rotate out, and "louie" and m16 will still be in standard until block 3 is released.
anyway, I was just confused about your 6 month thing. that's all. I appreciate your clarification
October 26, 2014 3:13 a.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #17
After M16 they are droping down to two sets per block and no core set at all so a block will rotate every six months. You should understand I am talking about after m16 rolls this is what happens next so your block after khans has 12 months from its release and its partner 9 or 8. Because no core set 2 per block.
October 26, 2014 3:26 a.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #18
Again not saying our current blocks will be cut short.
October 26, 2014 3:28 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #19
Fetches are crucial for mana fixing, even if it only gives a basic land. It's better to have a land ETB untapped to maintain tempo, and fetches do this better than Terramorphic Expanse . As previously stated, wonderful synergy with Courser and Delve.
The fetches also play well with the Scry mechanic. This is why fetches + Brainstorm / Sensei's Divining Top is so good in Legacy. Scry is similar in function and allows you to set up your top draw or shuffle it away.
October 26, 2014 9:01 a.m.
First set of new blocks will be in standard about 18 months, second set will have about 15 months because 3 blocks will be in standard. So the block that comes out in fall of 2015 will rotate out spring of 2017.
October 26, 2014 9:13 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #21
Fetches don't play that well with Scry because if you bottom a card you don't need to shuffle it away. If you top the card you don't want to shuffle it away.
October 26, 2014 10:35 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #22
@ColdHeartedSith: there will be 2 sets per block after m16, but there will also be 3 blocks in standard at any given time.the first set of a block is legal for 18 months, and the second is legal for 15 months.
October 26, 2014 10:52 a.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #23
@CommanderOfBolas this discussion is off subject let's not talk about this here in this thread.
October 26, 2014 12:37 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #24
Fair enough. Anyway, i find fetches to be very useful in standard. I think there are some decks that utilize them better than others, but they are good everywhere
October 26, 2014 1:16 p.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #25
Anyone play with fetches in a previous standard outside of Modern?
October 26, 2014 7 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #26
Yep, when Zendikar was Standard. It obviously made Landfall triggers happen; Lotus Cobra was nuts. I played an Eldrazi ramp deck. The fetches were awesome for fixing alongside the check lands.
October 26, 2014 7:14 p.m.
Arorsthrar says... #28
Fetches are weird in that they aren't too strong in a 50/50 or 33/33/33 multicolored deck or in a 90/10 dominant color + splash. Basically, it fixes your mana for one spell and leaves you stranded without the other, or forces you to run 1 basic in a deck with 23 every other land. So as far as fixing, I don't like it too much. There was an article I think by Jim Davis over this, where he had a hand of 3 U/X fetches, Bile Blight , Dissolve , and End Hostilities and was forced to mulligan because he would be stranded on mana.
However, they add to the graveyard for delve and do have some neat shuffle interactions.
October 27, 2014 12:27 a.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #29
Sounds like Jim shouldn't have played bile blight in that deck lol. jk
October 27, 2014 1:08 a.m.
Generally speaking, if you have already played a land, most effects that will cause you to be able to play the top card of your library won't grant multiple land drops (grand exception is courser and daya shamans of course) If you scry and find a fetch, you're fine. If you fetch, you have no idea that the scry is on top anyway. If you ever had a position where you did know about a scryland being under a fetchland, then why wouldn't you just flip the two (if you aren't hurting for mana) since that effect is scry anyway?
Also note: I picked bulbasaur. ;P
October 27, 2014 11:44 a.m.
Fetches in Standard are very good for quick decks that have a variety of options for a T1 play.
Let's say you play with both Thoughtseize
and Monastery Swiftspear
in your deck.
T1: You could end up with Thoughtseize
as your only 1-drop...
or you may end up with Monastery Swiftspear
as your only 1 drop...
or you may end up with both in your hand.
In any opening hand, Bloodstained Mire would be preferred over Mountain , Swamp or a tapped land like Temple of Malice . It allows you to ensure you have the proper first play against the deck you are facing without waiting a turn to do it. - Ignoring this benefit in favour of saving 1 life, or being able to scry will likely cripple your deck's opening hand and cause it to have poorer starts than it should.
Decks that intend on having a slower setup/start would not value this early fixing as much. You are likely going to be able to play a tapped land and get as much efficiency as you would with a Fetch.
October 27, 2014 1:01 p.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #32
It seems the consensice is that fetches should replace scry lands if speed is a concern and life isnt. Making either confuence and pain lands or both the other fixers. I think that scry lands by the feel of this thread will dissipate from lists when the other 5 fetches are released probably in set 3 of the block so i'd be trading temple of malice and epiphany by mid to near the release but before spoiler season gets to deep for set 3.
scholar says... #2
It lets you grab the land you need if you're sitting on the opposite and it also thins out your deck.
October 25, 2014 11:57 p.m.