All Things Red Deck
Standard Deck Help forum
Posted on May 9, 2016, 9:19 p.m. by snarlmkiv
Inspired by clayperce's movement of All Things Wolven, a thread dedicated for players with Werewolf decks.
This thread is dedicated to every RDW player out there, and those who are still contemplating on building an RDW for this rotation.
Let us help out one another and build a strong RDW community.
Some primers for your RDWs:
rdw-red-discard-wins by yours truly
Insolence Runs in the Family... by poopiepoopiepants1
Competitive Red Deck - 1st place FNM 29/04 by NestorCoelho
Spiteful Motives is definitely a surprise, especially the first strike bonus. It works well into a transitory playstyle for turns 5 onwards, if ever the game lasts longer than anticipated. Equipped on a Bloodmad or Bloodseeker, I could see it being lethal to big creatures like Thought-Knot Seer or even to players.
Good pick!
May 10, 2016 12:50 a.m.
snarlmkiv,
Thanks for the shout-out, but thanks TONS for building this RDW thread!
snarlmkiv and poopiepoopiepants1,
You might want to check out SaffronOlive's "Insolent Red" deck over on MTGgoldfish ... it's a very similar build to yours, and it's fun to see him playing it!
May 10, 2016 1:04 a.m. Edited.
clayperce My RDW is an inspiration from Saffron's deck, but mainly from the States Toronto player who got 5th place with his RDW.
Check my deck out RDW Red Discard Wins...
May 10, 2016 1:06 a.m.
Hobbez9186,
You might want to check out SaffronOlive's "Devil's Goggles""; it looks pretty amazing too.
May 10, 2016 1:12 a.m.
I have everything for that deck but the goggles. Go figure hahaha
May 10, 2016 1:17 a.m.
poopiepoopiepants1 says... #8
I really like the idea of Spiteful Motives but I am not sure a) how many I would put in and b) what to take out.
Any suggestions?
May 10, 2016 5:30 a.m.
NestorCoelho says... #9
poopiepoopiepants1, I would cut one Fiery Impulse to make room for just one Spiteful Motives.
Why just 1? Your deck can easyly reach the forth mana, ok, but Motives still needs a creature to be cast, and playing against a control deck could make it a dead card by turn 4.
About cutting one Impulse, You already have many ways of removing things:
4 Axes, 4 Tempers, 3 Judgments and 2 Impulses. I think it's enough. I'm my deck, i'm running 12 spells that can remove (full playset of axe, temper and exquisite firecraft).
You also need to be aware that opponents might wait for your Motives on game 2 in case that you use it on game 1, so don't be afraid of siding it out when it appeared on game 1.
May 10, 2016 7:15 a.m.
NestorCoelho says... #10
I'd like to know how you play against another Mono Red.
In this standard I didn't had any mirror matches yet, but on Theros-Khans Rotation I played a Red Deck too and I had some mirror matches on FNMs.
The question is, should we try to rush faster than our opponent or should we try playing more like a control deck, burning his creatures and try to gain control of the board?
Which cards do you think are good to side on against mirror matches and which cards to side off?
May 10, 2016 7:24 a.m.
I think we should push for better board control
they're going to have removal - even if it's a Zada-themed Goblin deck. Survive early game so you can transition well to mid game. Don't try to over-aggro. Go for 3 to 5 points of damage at best early.
May 10, 2016 7:34 a.m.
NestorCoelho says... #12
So, playing as Control, do you think is better to draw than to start?
If he's not using too many creatures with haste, seems that you don't need to have your mana ready for a surprise, so a first turn draw could help you more than start playing a turn 1 creature that will be removed. Or no?
May 10, 2016 8:08 a.m.
For this discussion, let's assume your typical red deck. Aggro, packed with burn, and has a lot of surprises in store.
If i were to go toe-to-toe with a mono-red deck, i'd probably control the board while maximizing my damage output at the same time. Lightning axe to remove creatures combo with Fiery Temper to the player proves to be an efficient combo. He'll wait out our creatures, much like we'll wait for him, so we could run the risk of overcommitting to early game or finish mid-game.
May 10, 2016 8:21 a.m.
NestorCoelho says... #14
fair enough
As side board, I think i'll completly remove my Sin Prodders and Falkenrath Gorgers to bring up spells that won't depend of being too much on field to make their value, for exemple Scab-Clan Berserker, Skin Invasion and Fiery Impulse
May 10, 2016 8:29 a.m.
It's about sticking to one strategy. Do we wait out midgame or do we finish early?
May 10, 2016 8:32 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #16
There is a rdw in the format, mono-red eldrazi. Boom!
May 10, 2016 8:43 a.m.
NestorCoelho says... #17
Well, I think we got more chances playing as control to get field advantage on midgame. If I play any mirror match I'll report here what happened.
UpperDeckerTaco, I didn't see any of these yet. How does it work?
May 10, 2016 8:47 a.m.
Hobbez9186 says... #18
Nice, I'm going to have to watch all those videos lol. My version came about from booster pulls and a pile of cards I wasn't using. I have just over $10 in mine and as awesome as goggles would be I'd more than triple my investment cost lol. I do like to see other decks using such undesirable cards. Someone got Devils Playground in our draft and I just asked if I could have it afterwards and they just gave it to me because they said it had 0 value to them :)
Also, thanks for the up votes, I saw several of you did so, I appreciate it.
May 10, 2016 9:29 a.m.
NestorCoelho says... #19
Suggestion to all Red Players:
2 copies on sideboard
As mono-R usually wins the first game, this card have great chances to grant you th victory, as your opponent will try to leave blockers to hold up your damage on turn 2, you can easyly hit for 10 on turn 3~4, killing your opponent or letting his life on range of burn spells.
Sadly we don't have collateral damage in standard anymore, that was a hell of a synergy. But Act is still good enough played alone.
Note: you still can make tricks of "steal - hit - sac" on Rakdos (Nantuko Husk, Bone Splinters, Vampiric Rites and Altar's Reap) and Gruul (Evolutionary Leap), but they're nothing compared with the Act of Treason + Collateral Damage Combo
May 10, 2016 9:40 a.m.
Hobbez9186 says... #21
I like Act and Husk or Splinters. That's a dirty trick I hadn't seen. You may have started a wheel turning in my head...
May 10, 2016 9:48 a.m.
NestorCoelho says... #22
Hobbez9186, these kind of tricks really surprise our opponents. About a year ago I won a FNM final against a Mono White Heroic (really hard match, due to Ordeal of Heliod) by surprising him with an act of treason on a Fabled Hero that let him without blockers to take damage from 2 pumped monastery swiftspear and his own Hero, followed by a Collateral Damage that took 3 more life while removed the Hero from the game.
May 10, 2016 9:54 a.m.
Between Act of Treason and Malevolent Whispers, which would be better? I main two copies of Malevolent for the Madness tech and they are quite a surprise.
May 10, 2016 10:11 a.m.
poopiepoopiepants1 says... #25
Wow! I love the energy! Thanks so much for the upvotes and thanks so much for the feedback NestorCoelho! So I am really thinking about that Spiteful Motives, especially on the Bloodmad Vampire, also, isn't Act of Treason the same as Malevolent Whispers? Does that extra mana really count? Or do you think that Act of Treason is better? Also, I haven't yet built the deck or gone to any tournaments with it so when I do I will definitely share my thoughts about it. Also, before I go into a tournament, any tips about the deck? Any feedback? How does the deck do basically.
Thanks!
May 10, 2016 10:17 a.m.
Hobbez9186 says... #26
I mean the extra 2 damage on Whispers is basically adding Shock to Treason without having a second card, especially if you stole their only blocker. I'd be rather torn between the two, but I'd say if you can trigger the Madness at will, go with Whispers.
May 10, 2016 10:21 a.m.
from experience, Malevolent Whispers when madness'ed is so swell. I stole a 5/5 creature after I madness'ed it from a lightning axe (targeted Thought-Knot Seer) and killed a creature with deathtouch with the 5/5. He lost 3 creatures in one go.
May 10, 2016 10:50 a.m.
NestorCoelho says... #29
The problem of Whispers, at least in my deck, is the 4 cmc. It's really hard for me to reach the 4th mana curve as I like to play under 20 lands.
But if you can consistently reach the 4th mana, Whispers is better. Madness and extra damage adds more value than the higher cmc costs for you.
poopiepoopiepants1, about your deck. It's nice to play it. You don't need to be nervous in any match, because you'll be the source of the problems, not your opponents. Just try to reach his life ASAP and well, it's not that difficult considering the lots of aggressive cards you're runnig.
Just keep in mind that sometimes you need to burn creatures and sometimes you must burn life, don't underestimate the math classes you had during your life and don't be afraid of taking some time on the tournaments in order to analyse your possibilities. Don't act only on impulse.
You need to remeber that some cards you play needs fuel to work, expecially Lightning Axe, so remember to hold that extra lands that you draw.
Another advice that I give you is: Pay Attention to Manlands. It's very common to forget your opponent could activate one of them and a issplay like this may cost you the game. Be carful mainly with Shambling Vents and Lumbering Falls. Lifelink and Hexproof are things that can really break your play.
Well, that's all I can tell you. From now on, you'll need to test a lot with friends to familiarize yourself with your deck and to know what other decks can do against you.
And always try to understand how people generally reacts your plays, because the psychological factor usually helps more than luck in tournaments!
May 10, 2016 10:55 a.m.
Agree with NestorCoelho. Red decks impose psychological warfare because of damage from all ends. You need to dictate every turn.
May 10, 2016 11 a.m.
Meanwhile i found this insane take on RDW by Midexin... He calls it
Brain on Fire
Standard
SCORE: 2 | 6 COMMENTS | 104 VIEWS
...
May 10, 2016 11:15 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #33
Mono red eldrazi aggro. You utilize cards like Eldrazi Obligator and Thought-Knot Seer at your top end. Some builds go as high as Reality Smasher, but I personally like it in the sideboard as a 2 of. Then you fill the bottom of your curve with cheap and efficient creatures. So you are a high aggressive deck with some sustainable top end aggression. Thought-Knot Seer would probably be a 2 of, 3 of at most. And Eldrazi Obligator is a definite 4 of because it has haste so he's good on the play turn 3 and just overall better turn 5. Many a games had been won with a timely Eldrazi Obligator. So your low end will have probably close to 7 - 1 drops. At least 8-10 2 drops (here you can utilize a creature not many have utilized lately, Abbot of Keral Keep). And about 2-3 more 3 drops. That fits your creature curve well (sidenote: Sin Prodder is a great card to have access to somewhere in the 75 because in grindier games when you have a slower draw, he can really push through damage). Then you can utilize spells like Fiery Temper+Lightning Axe, Titan's Strength, and other pump/removal/burn spells.
May 10, 2016 11:25 a.m.
Blackshadow415 says... #35
I was wondering if someone chould help me with a sideboard for my deck
Uncaged Bloodlust
Standard
SCORE: 1 | 315 VIEWS
May 10, 2016 11:41 a.m.
poopiepoopiepants1 says... #36
Thanks NestorCoelho! Also, that Brain in a Jar deck, all I can say is.. drum roll WOW!
May 10, 2016 11:43 a.m.
poopiepoopiepants1 says... #37
I am wandering about Stensia Masquerade, what do you guys (or gals) think?
May 10, 2016 11:52 a.m.
Blackshadow415 says... #38
In Rakdos Madness Vampires it's okay I like it I personally think it's cool.
May 10, 2016 12:01 p.m.
NestorCoelho says... #39
poopiepoopiepants1, about Masquerade: It's a strong card if you play lots of vampires. I used to run it in my deck, but dropped it to sideborad as I'm playing more non-vampire creatures. The first strike for all is good anyway.
It's very strong combined with Ravenous Bloodseeker, casting ravenous on turn 2 and discarding masquerade for giving him +2/-2 on turn 3.
But as results of tests, I realized that is a situational card. Against midrange it's good, but against aggro, it's slow and against control it's useless, as your opponents nulify the first strike by don't having any blockers and they really don't car about the counters, as they'll remove your creatures easyly.
So, if you are running lots of vampires, it's a good sideboard.
~
About the Brain in a Jar deck, I didn't like it very much. The Brain is too slow. I'm testing it in a Mono-Black control and it demands too much mana.
Also, I don't like the Dance with Devils and Devils Playground. They doubled the cost of Dragon Fodder and Hordeling Outburst. Comparing them, for 1 less mana, Outburst get 1 token more than Dance of Devils. Ok, Outburst is not Standard Legal anymore, but this fact doesn't make the devil spells any better.
~~
UpperDeckerTaco, the deck seems really strong, I wouldn't like to face one of those.. I'd like to see a sample list too.
~~
Blackshadow415, for your deck sideboard I'll recommend fast removals such as Fiery Impulse and Dual Shot.
Also, 2 copies of Act of Treason, explained on previous comment.
Smash to Smithereens too, because is always good to have something to get rid of artifacts, expecially if your card deals damage to the artifacts controller too.
May 10, 2016 12:30 p.m.
NestorCoelho says... #41
Here's a good exemple of usage for Brain:
Deck that Cheats the usage of ~Brain in a Jar~
Unfortunatly, not standard legal
May 10, 2016 12:33 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #43
This is the sample deck I came up with. It may need work. But it is basically what I was talking about.
May 10, 2016 4:39 p.m.
This is what I have been testing and playing around with it is super fun to play and just comes out bursting at whatever stands in its way.
May 10, 2016 5:07 p.m.
I'm finally catching up on some old comments and wanted to pass on a few thoughts on sideboarding.
First, to pile on what NestorCoelho and snarlmkiv said, psychological factors are always a Big Deal. But in sideboarding, I think they're HUGE.
My example (from the other side of the table) is that I ran a surprisingly solid Izzet Thopters deck last season, and Atarka Red was by far my most hated match-up. Game 1 was of course usually brutal due to Become Immense + Temur Battle Rage but whether I won or lost, I always HATED sideboarding afterwards.
Was my opponent going to leave the combo pieces in? If so, I needed every Dispel I had. Or was he or she going to change up the deck entirely, replacing the Instants with Flamewake Phoenix and Thunderbreak Regent? If so, I needed every Horribly Awry I had. Chose right and maybe I had a chance, but choose wrong and I had 4 dead cards in my deck. Aaargh!
Any time you can apply pressure like that on an opponent, it's a Good Thing for sure.
And that doesn't even count stuff like the guy who I'm pretty sure never even owned a Hangarback Walker, let alone sideboarded one in. But always made sure you saw his Thopter Tokens while sideboarding! :-D
Some of my favorite articles/podcasts on sideboarding, in case you want to go deep:
- Atarka Red Deck Guide: All the details
- The Art of Transforming: Intro to transformational sideboarding
- Strengths vs. Weaknesses in Deckbuilding: Should your sideboard emphasize your deck's strengths or shore up its weaknesses?
- Part 1 and Part 2 of the Constructed Resources Level Up podcast on sideboarding
May 11, 2016 1:12 a.m.
NestorCoelho says... #46
UpperDeckerTaco, the deck seems really great. Can be agressive like red, but have creatures more difficult to remove. I'd like to test something like this.
hawk393, Maybe you should use more removal spells. Haste becomes useless if your opponent has a blocker that can stop you and stay alive.
Also don't like the idea of Goldnight Castigator on main deck. Too risky.
clayperce, thanks for the advices!
Made me remember of my sideboard on theros-khans. I used to win the 1st game by hitting lots of damage through many tokens and 1-drop creatures + Trumpet blast.
So, for game 2, I sided out all the token generators and fast creatures to bring 12 burn spells. My opponents than had lots of dead cards in hand, such as drown in sorrow/bileblight.
In case of a game 3, he didn't even know how to side against my deck. It was hilarious.
May 11, 2016 6:54 a.m.
clayperce many thanks.
I played against azorious control this afternoon and went 2-0. The game stalled mid game because i ran out of gas but rcovered control after turn 7.
He just couldnt keep up with the damage. By the end of game 1, i madnesses avacyns judgment for lethal.
Game 2 ended with a very fat bloodmad vampire.
May 11, 2016 9:23 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #48
Do not, I repeat, do not play Goldnight Castigator! It's not all that it's cracked up to be. In the previous Khans/theros meta, it may have been fine because of some burn options so you can kill quicker than they can Crack back for. In this current meta, it's slower, and without a pure dominant aggro deck that can win in 4 turns, this card is no Bueno.
May 11, 2016 4:03 p.m.
FalkenbergRath says... #49
I agree with UpperDeckerTaco on this. The double damage to you kills any benefit she might have.
May 11, 2016 5:54 p.m.
Is there a solid reason why mono red players don't tend to play any of the following?
Bloodmark Mentor, Archetype of Aggression, Urabrask the Hidden
Did anyone attempt to build a deck around Break Through the Line, using small creatures & things like Brute Force or Titan's Strength?
FalkenbergRath says... #2
One card I've been considering for inclusion in my main board is Spiteful Motives. Flash makes it a viable combat trick that sticks around, but played on turn 4, is it likely to be a worthwhile play? I could see playing it on a Bloodmad Vampire during combat, or a Skin Shredder, but it's hard to cut one drop tricks in RDWs for four drop tricks when they might be dead in your hand until it's too late for them to be useful. What do y'all think?
May 10, 2016 12:41 a.m.