Panharmonicon How Broken is it?
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Sept. 4, 2016, 1:10 a.m. by Iffy
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/panharmonicon/
So I mostly Play standard and I can already see some nice angles to play this, Mostly with R/B tokens, allies, and Eldrazi but I'm hearing that this card has serious Implications in Modern and Edh.
EDIT: A new card called wispweaver gt spoiled wich I think synergizes well with Panharmonicon. http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/kaladesh/27765-wispweaver-angel
4 drop with no immediate effect. Won't see Modern play I'd wager. It'll be popular in casual EDH though. Seems fun.
September 4, 2016 1:53 a.m.
Standard? Slow, but maybe good enough in the right deck. EDH? I'd say borderline broken. I'm not sure if it's ban worthy. I might be overreacting though, time will tell.
September 4, 2016 1:56 a.m.
I doubt it will break modern though. Way too slow since it isn't dropping till turn 4, and has no effect on the board.
September 4, 2016 1:57 a.m.
Card seems pretty obscene. It causes Thought-Knot Seer and Snapcaster Mage to trigger twice lol.
Image for the lazy:
It might be too win-more, but holy shit otherwise.
September 4, 2016 2:02 a.m.
How does that work with something like Elite Arcanist?
September 4, 2016 2:14 a.m.
It certainly at least has rules implications for some effects, especially Champion and some Imprint cards.
September 4, 2016 2:35 a.m.
Ah, nevermind, Strionic Resonator answers those questions.
September 4, 2016 2:38 a.m.
Broken in casual EDH. Not too playable anywhere else.
September 4, 2016 5:30 a.m.
Yeah. This thing isn't very good at mid- to high-level play. Tapping four mana on your main phase to no effect feels bad.
September 4, 2016 8:14 a.m.
I want this to work in my blink deck Houdini - Venser U/W Blink
But as stated before can only wokr in EDH and casual play.
September 4, 2016 9:16 a.m.
This thing goes right into Daretti, Scrap Savant decks... especially when you can multiply it with Mirrorworks, since it triggers of ETBs and Daretti is very good at cheating stuff into play he's bound to generate value
September 4, 2016 5:46 p.m.
I think this has alot more potential outside of edh especially with impact tremors, play Pia and Kiran Nalaar Boom 10 damage and 5 creatures for 4 mana
September 5, 2016 12:07 a.m.
Iffy It's actually 10 damage and 5 creatures for 10 mana. And without ramp, the earliest it can happen is turn 5. And if the opponent is playing any form of artifact hate, don't expect this cute little interaction to work very often. I don't see this having much impact outside of casual EDH.
September 5, 2016 12:27 a.m.
So how would this work with Phyrexian Ingester if it exiles two creatures? It wouldn't happen to get both +X+X/+Y+Y would it?
September 5, 2016 12:30 a.m.
vault When I said 4 mana I was referring to the cmc of Pia and Kiran, also there is hardly any artifact hate in standard and there is even less that see play and a deck like Izzet tokens can afford to concede a turn 4 play because they will have a board presence especially for something like Panharmonicon which will end the game in 1 or 2 turns after it drops
September 5, 2016 12:34 a.m.
Iffy Yeah, Pia and Kiran is 4 CMC. But to achieve the scenario you mentioned, you need to invest 10 mana. And if this does truly become a viable strategy in Standard (which I doubt), then people will begin to run artifact hate. Besides, isn't Impact Tremors going to rotate out of Standard along with the rest of DTK when Kaladesh comes out?
September 5, 2016 12:41 a.m.
Yeah it does Ive always prefaced that statement with something like "Too bad its going out but....." yeah i forgot to this time but If it wasnt going out I believe it would be the best deck in the format to be honest, we essentially saw the same thing with the Pyromancer's Goggles shell why not here as well(again hypothetically)
September 5, 2016 12:50 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #23
I am very surprised that that artifact is not legendary, because I do not believe that it is overpowered on its own, but it definitely is overpowered if a player controls multiple copies of it simultaneously.
September 5, 2016 1:16 a.m.
I think the opposite -- it's only ever worth the time lost investing in casting two of them if you can't cast anything else relevant that turn.
September 5, 2016 11:12 a.m.
Only worth the time if you cast 2?? it copies any etb trigger from that point forward, with Dark-Dwellers you could recast 2 cards for free that's 3 cards for the price of 1, With Ataraka you could pop their board for 10 damage , with Thought Knot you could hit the 2 best cards from their hand. How are people under estimating this.
September 5, 2016 2 p.m.
...I think you need to reread my post. You missed something somewhere.
September 5, 2016 2:17 p.m.
NotaNetDeck says... #27
I don't expect this card will affect any format other than EDH, but what are people's thoughts on standard? I don't keep up with that format at all. Is it possible that there's some kind of broken ETB deck just waiting to be built?
September 5, 2016 4:58 p.m.
NotaNetDeck I think so kind of like how Goggles was but in a more mid range shell, I don't think it will be a tier 1 top of the format sort of thing but it could definitely work, for example this displacer and eyeless watcher provides infinite mana, and A Red/Green mid range could work out great with things like Thought knot seer and Goblin dark dwellers talk about value, and especially Ishkanah, Grafwidow and the New Gearhulk card that distrubutes 4, +1/+1 counters could work into being a 12/12 trample for 5 mana if you have the Panharmonicon on the field
September 5, 2016 6:03 p.m.
Ok, no one else is reading this the way I am, so I am likely wrong... However...
I'm reading this as: If a creature or artifact entering the battlefield would -set off a trigger- of a permanent you control, do that twice.
In other words, Creature enters your field while you control Essence Warden and this card, you gain two life instead of one.
However, casting something like Ishkanah, Grafwidow while you control this, doesnt double. Ishkanah has an enter the battle field trigger. The card isnt entering twice, so you wouldnt get the effect twice.
Am I reading it wrong? I dont know Magic all that technically (like, what exactly is a triggered ability).
September 15, 2016 3:41 a.m.
Triggered abilities start with the words "when""whenever" or "at".
Note that when you cast Ishkanah, Grafwidow she goes on the stack and nothing happens. If the spell resolves Ishkanah will enter the battlefield and at that moment her ability will trigger. So when she enters the battlefield she will trigger her own ability, with Panharmonicon this will be doubled because Ishkanah, Grafwidow is at that moment also a permanent you control.
September 15, 2016 4:33 a.m.
Jtegg007 I'd also like to add to what Chandrian said: What happens is that the ability triggers twice, and both go on the stack and resolve independently. So with Essence Warden for example, assuming both resolve, you'd gain 1 life twice (not 2 life once), or your opponent could, for example, cast Voidslime to counter one of them, and you'd then still gain 1 life.
September 17, 2016 2:36 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #32
I'm with ChiefBell. Should be fun in casual EDH, but won't be played anywhere else. This is just a very silly card.
iBleedPunk says... #2
Honestly I am in the middle of building a Roon of the Hidden Realm ETB Combo deck and I pray this doesn't get the banhammer. It just seems like waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much fun
September 4, 2016 1:33 a.m.