Opinions on Brawl

Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum

Posted on March 23, 2018, 11:03 a.m. by luther

For those of you that haven't seen, here is the link to the article.

I feel as though it is a neat idea, however far too niche to actually work. I strictly play edh, and this seems to be edh lite like tiny leaders. But unlike tiny leaders, I do not have the cards to make a deck for this because I don't play standard and most of the cards I would have to get to play this would be literal garbage to me after they would rotate. So I think this caters strictly toward standard players who also play edh or would like to get started playing edh. What are your opinions?

vinterheart says... #2

I think it's an awesome way to get new people into edh. Pretty much everyone starts playing Magic with standard cards, mostly bulk and jank. Introducing people to edh, where the cardpool spans all 25 years of Magic is daunting. Brawl is kinda like the shallow end of the swimming pool and edh is the deep end. When you know what you're doing, you can play whatever you want, but brand new players need it simplified a bit.

March 23, 2018 11:22 a.m.

Rzepkanut says... #3

Brawl is clearly mostly for new players to the game with limited card pools and budgets to get hooked on a new Magic format. Be it a new EDH player with a commander precon deck or a new standard player who has only bought a bunch of random standard packs, this format is for everyone new to Magic. I am an old school Magic player with decades of cards in my collection, including 20 paper EDH decks I've built (all 100% real and proxy free). I don't think this format is really designed for people like me: veteran EDH players. Although its very similar to my favorite format, EDH in many ways, it's fundamentally different in multiple ways.

  • Personally I'm not interested in keeping up with the constant rotation of cards in standard, that's why I love the eternal status of EDH decks. I don't buy packs or draft outside of prerelease events much. When new sets release I mostly just buy singles from online sellers for my EDH decks, as a result my standard collection is tiny.
  • For me building decks is so time consuming and expensive that I like leaving them assembled kinda permanently.
  • I'm just not really excited about EDH with a smaller card pool in general. Feels kinda like Tiny Leaders all over again.

TL;DR: Brawl doesn't fit with in my lifestyle, so I doubt I'll try and brew for it. Having a Brawl deck available in my repertoire of decks in case a game is happening seems cool, but not worth it for me.

March 23, 2018 noon

multimedia says... #4

It's quite convenient that Wizards makes Dominaria, a legendaries matter set and then releases a new format that specifically cares about legendary cards. I was starting to think that Wizards intent is for legendary creatures to rule Standard which will honestly not work, but releasing Brawl now makes sense. However, it's another sign that Wizards doesn't know what to do with Standard...

I'm convinced that they don't know how to make a balanced set geared toward only Standard. Instead now they're bringing Commander into Standard? What a cop-out. They decided to use Dominaria as a launch for Brawl instead of focusing on Standard which the set should be for. Brawl also gives an excuse to keep printing jank cards which Wizards already is printing way way too much of in sets, much more jank than anything else. I don't like that this format gives Wizards even more reasons to design cards that are not for Standard, but for Commander in sets that should be for Standard.


March 23, 2018 12:11 p.m.

MindAblaze says... #5

Like you guys Im primarily an EDH player these days. I love my Sol Ring, Sylvan Library, Necropotence, Force of Will, Swords to Plowshares and other eternal goodies. I would never give that up and replace EDH with Brawl. However, Ive been living in a new community for about six months and the guys here are primarily new to the game, or returned to the game. Small town (~2700 ppl,) no card shop and limited knowledge of the game leads to mostly standard events, drafts and playing with precons. My main EDH decks make for sad faces.

For me Brawl is an opportunity to get the best of both worlds. Build on an existing card base, use the limitations as an opportunity to get creative. New reasons to build decks are always good, and the smaller deck size means there will be less garbage filling out the 32-36 slots. It gets the other guys building new decks, and seeing ways to improve those decks into real EDH decks by using the last 40 slots to upgrade mana bases, add more ramp and fill out with eternal staples in the draw and interaction categories.

I personally love the idea of Brawl. It allows for creativity, sells Standard cards (if youre into that,) and is a stepping stone into a real format.

March 23, 2018 12:12 p.m.

MagicalHacker says... #6

I too am an enfranchised commander player. I don't touch 60-card formats with a 10-foot pole.

However, I love brawl, and here's a few reasons why:

  1. I love deckbuilding, but with limited funds, I can't afford to build new decks unless I scrap old ones. This is a problem because I've gotten good enough at commander to only tackle building decks that are viable and fun, and build them strong enough to always be good. Brawl gives me a way to build new decks with a reason to take those decks apart.

  2. I like playing with lower power levels IF AND ONLY IF everyone in the multiplayer game is playing at that level. This is a great way to ensure that everyone plays with cool, flashy, complex rares while still being in games that aren't cutthroat turn 3 combos.

  3. It lets me play planeswalkers as commanders. Not much else to this point.

  4. It lets me experiment and try to play a lower power deck, like Depala, without being guaranteed to lose in comparison to the most popular deck archetypes.

  5. No MLD or Stax.

I'm super excited!

March 23, 2018 12:59 p.m.

MoJoMiXuP says... #7

To my mind, the reduction in library size works against the uniqueness of gameplay (outsize of cEDH) as you'll see the same cards more often from game to game. Also, so much of the fun of commander is in deck brewing, finding awesome interactions with cards and being creative. This won't happen in brawl, which will have a limited range of deck archetypes and available generals.

Brawl is EDH with training wheels, but the precon commander decks already effectively did that for new players while still giving them exposure to the full range of EDH as their opponents plans play out.

Final point against brawl, EDH was a player developed format! it has an organic history focused on fun. Brawl is here to help maximize profits for the company and did not come from the player base. The economic incentive of propping up standard sales with a format designed to take advantage of the popularity of commander makes me cringe and I hope it falls short.

March 23, 2018 1:11 p.m.

MagicalHacker says... #8

I don't understand how someone who wants WotC to continue to make new cards could want them to fail.

I have yet to understand how the mere popularity of Brawl negatively impacts a player who is uninterested in playing it.

March 23, 2018 1:33 p.m.

luther says... #9

I certainly hope it doesn't fail, but I feel as though it might.

March 23, 2018 1:57 p.m.

Dr.Ache says... #10

I understand the point made. The thing that's being ignored is that the person who invented Brawl, even though they do work for wizards, is also a player. I do get the love/hate thing though and wizards has sort of been making a poor track record for themselves lately.

Brawl is clearly EDH with training wheels, however since wizards has gone corporate and injected their product into almost every big box store I can understand why they would want to push a format that uses less cards. This has a lot of ripple effects like smaller packaging, a lower price point etc. I mean they're putting old edh precons in those mystery cubes for a reason, and if you want the company to actually die I could see why you would want them to continue that trend. I think optimistic longterm goal for wizards is that Brawl precons will replace the EDH precons. They'll sell you a base deck that gets your foot in the door and then leave it up to you, the player, to fill in the gaps to bridge into EDH/cEDH.

To the point of the format being less creative: yes, to a certain extent, but only because the card pool is limited very much like when Modern began. Once the card pool deepens diversity will naturally flourish. There's nothing that says you cannot brew in this format in much the same way you can in others. Tiers will appear here, just like in others. Awesome interactions can still be discovered. Maybe there's some combo you've wanted to roll out in standard but hesitate because its not competitive enough. You can't justify running it in regular EDH as deck size there will more than likely work against you. To me, brawl is the perfect middle ground for a scenario like this.

I like the idea of a format that brings new players in and breaks them in a bit before they truly get their feet wet and dive into the deep end that is EDH, or cEDH if you prefer.Nothing against you new players as I dont personally mind helping new people understand EDH, however there is certainly times where you just want the table to know the ins and outs. EDH games take awhile anyways and when there's a new player sitting in it can draw the games out that much more.

March 23, 2018 2:15 p.m.

xoorath says... #11

I think brawl makes way more sense for me and my group than edh proper.

We draft, and end up with a bunch of random standard stuff. And theres no easy way to build fair/fun edh decks when some people also play in groups that have a $1000+ baseline of cards in their manabase and staples, while others want to just play casually.

The format will probaby do really well in my circles, I think.

March 23, 2018 3:20 p.m.

cdkime says... #12

My thoughts:

  • This format looks like it was designed for Magic Arena, the upcoming online way of playing Magic. Arena is only going to have the most recent sets, which would make a full EDH deck rather hard to build. Further, 30 life and 60 cards will reduce the amount of time a game takes, which is much more manageable for online play.

  • New players constantly complain about the amount of mediocrity in packs they open. This format will help new players by giving them an outlet for the otherwise useless cards they've opened. Magic has a bit of an issue with retaining new players--hopefully this will help.

  • This increases the chance of interesting cards being printed in regular, standard sets that would be suitable for EDH but not for Modern and Standard. More variety in R&D's considerations is always a good thing.

MoJoMiXuP: Can you please explain why Wizards profiting makes you cringe? Wizards needs to sell products to keep in business. Them staying in business ensures we continue to receive products we enjoy for years to come. Paper trading card games are struggling with competition from Hearthstone and other tablet games. Wizards needs to focus on profits and hooking new players--that's how they survive.

March 23, 2018 3:58 p.m.

Bobbbyyy says... #13

This would be great on arena, same pool as standard but includes a more casual fun orientated gameplay (as arena aims to to).

March 23, 2018 6:32 p.m.

MoJoMiXuP says... #14

To clarify, I don't want MTG to collapse, I just don't appreciate the sprawl it has developed in recent years. I agree with you cdkime that the business needs to remain profitable and electronic gaming has taken a chunk out of the consumer base, but part of the struggle to maintain the paper magic product is over-saturation of the market with reprints, sealed product, and the general tendency in recent years towards ever increasing volume and frequency of print runs. This is a self inflicted issue that could be resolved internally.

From my perspective, this new 'format' is an extension of that pattern - consistent with the money grab mentality wanting to maximize this quarter at the expense of long-term stability for the game. In my mind, if long term stability is the goal, that comes from player generated content and demand, not manufactured need. To that end, I want brawl to fall short and reinforce the risks to HASBRO further diluting and fracturing the player base.

The commander precon releases once a year are successful from both a player experience and bottom line perspective - why look for ways to double down on that success? If we are losing players from the MTG community in the millions, is a new singleton variant limited to standard cards really what we expect to fix that?

I'm glad to hear the range of perspectives and experiences offered in this thread. Thank you to everyone for maintaining a constructive and respectful tone :).

March 23, 2018 8:52 p.m.

StopShot says... #15

Negatively.

Trying to standardize EDH seems like a way to cash out on players. It will make the Standard format more expensive as everyone will want more from a limited selection of cards and may split play-groups up between Brawl and EDH. I don't have the intentions of spending for a rotating set and this format is only going to make would-be EDH players build decks that won't be compatible with the decks I and my friends make. It's just going to be the Tiny Leaders dilemma all over again.

The only upside is this may encourage Wizards to create more EDH-playable cards in every Standard set, however; this probably won't work out well since every Standard set is always going to put a higher focus on Standard than Brawl and Wizards always preforms horribly whenever they put more than one major goal on any given product. (Also am I the only one that hates it whenever the only specific multi-color slot card in a standard set gets eaten up by a clunky legendary creature? We'll likely be seeing more of that from now on.)

Personally I'd like to see a new format that doesn't recycle or try to follow the success of other formats. New formats should help explore other revenues this game has potential for rather than splitting the pre-existing groups it's built on. (They could have announced paper pauper as a sponsored format if they really had to shoot for something thrilling and profitable to bank on, but that's just my opinion.)

March 23, 2018 11:47 p.m.

StopShot says... #16

EDIT: Avenues, not revenues.

March 23, 2018 11:49 p.m.

meatsmith says... #17

meh.

I have seen people play this format before as a variant of CMDR.

I guess wotc just caught wind of it and thought they would make a thing of it.

It really doesn't need to be a thing, because it was already a variant of the format, and some number of people already played it.

Yeah, it wasn't ever seriously serious... like for kitchen table, or you played it at an LGS's EDH night with a friend.

y'know... "for fun"?

"Brawl" isn't anything new or inconceivably evil, so I don't see a real reason to hate on it that much. It doesn't impact my fun, from what i can tell.

So i can't care.

But, as a player of one of the most expensive formats in the game; i can relate to people in the standard community and their totally reasonable fears of potential price spikes.

If Brawl takes off, i don't think that the format would cause the market to actually implode, but i do see how it would definitely have an impact.

If there were to be a rush of people looking for standard-legal cards for two separate formats, that may do some crazy things to the market

Its possible that it may make building decks even more expensive than it was during the darkest days of the Khans/Origins era standard-legal card hoarding and price-gouging.

"Possible" doesn't mean that will happen, though.

I know that i am mostly speaking to a veritable "brick wall" audience, when i say this, but:

"Extremely rational, measured, and hot-looking people of the MTG community... please: Keep your damnned shirts on about this new little fad that literally ain't gonna be the end of MTG-world.

It will be gone soon enough... You had waited out Frontier, and you're certainly none the worse for it.

Now buck up, Buttercup. And would you end your frickin turn and pass, already? We's burning daylight!"

March 24, 2018 4:59 a.m.

Arvail says... #18

I'm glad it exists, but it's not for me. I'd actually even go so far as to say I'd rather play Standard.

March 24, 2018 10:54 a.m.

TheKing8426 says... #20

My hot take is that if it survives the first rotation, it will be bigger than EDH will ever be.

I think it's a good format. For me, it solves everything I seem to see commander players whine about: Sheldon, 100 Cards, Stax/MLD, Money = Winning. I will now address these and you can feel free to ask me questions and I'll try to explain further.

Sheldon: I kid you not when I say literally every EDH player I've sat down with has said something bad about Sheldon and the committee. Mostly, this is about the disconnect between Sheldon and WotC. Brawl solves this since it comes directly from WotC.

100 Cards: This is a little more niche of a complaint, but a complaint nonetheless. 100 cards is a ton. Especially for new players, or if you want to make an obscure deck. Try making a good energy deck in EDH. It's extremely difficult due to the nature of energy being printed once. You basically have to cram every energy card that's in your colours into your deck to call it an energy deck, whether those cards are good or not. Your options are just limited. Now, let's build one in Brawl. This is way easier in 60 cards. Plus, the standard format allows for more diverse deckbuilding (especially in cBrawl, assuming that Brawl will go competitive).

Stax/MLD: Speaking of diverse deckbuilding, this is something that is widely and heavily disputed in the community. While some claim that these effects are against the "nature" of the format and are anti-fun (which, well, they are anti-fun), others hold that they are part of the format at large, and are completely fine to play as these types of cards are not on the banlist. Whatever your take may be, Brawl eliminates this problem, for the most part. Yes, there is Creeping Mold in Standard, and Harsh Mentor, but Stax & MLD at large are not a problem.

Money = Winning: This. This is the single, most unanimous argument from people who have lost to me. "Oh, TheKing8426," they say, "you only beat us because you have (Mana Crypt/Liliana of the Veil/Force of Will)." And that is the worst feeling for me, because I've built up my collection over years. And I'd like to think I also win because I'm good. Well, now this doesn't have to be an argument. I mean, I'm sure it will be. Constructed formats drive prices via demand, I understand this. However, you don't need a Chandra, Torch of Defiance to have a good Samut, Voice of Dissent deck. And let's say you did want Chandra, ToD for that deck: she is $22.38 (market price - tcgplayer). Mana Crypt is over $100. Bob is pushing $75 for his cheapest versions (again, market price - tcgplayer).

My only concern for Brawl is that it will die with rotation in September. I understand people's grievances towards formats with rotation; believe me, I do. But rotated Brawl decks can still be EDH decks (you're only 40 cards away), or they can provide new singles for your existing decks (if you're not playing Harsh Mentor in every red EDH, you should)

Standard is an incredibly diverse format and I think Brawl is a very, very good thing for Magic players as a whole. I think it is more accessible for new/returning highlander players, and provides a new challenge for weathered EDH players, through deck building and having to play in new ways.

March 24, 2018 2:42 p.m.

dbpunk says... #22

I think Brawl could be interesting, but it really depends on how many legendaries/planeswalkefs of each color identity are in rotation and what their abilities are.

For example, there arent any Mardu or Esper legendaries/planeswalkers in rotation. So no one would be able to play those colors at all. Which is an issue, since it does restrict the number of deck types that can be built and limits multiplayer formats like edh which are really built around variety. Meanwhile, unlike other 60 card formats like standard, youll have less variety since you cant base decks around multiples of a single card as well.

The other issue is that itll have some lesser built decks in general. I dont mean weaker, but overall less interesting since youll see the same decks more often. This isnt as much of an issue in edh, which can pull from hundreds and hundreds of commanders to build around. Brawl would be pulling from a much more limited pool of interesting commanders. As well, Brawl would get less new potential commanders overall, while edh gets so many more since it isnt restricted to standard legality.

Overall, its going to be a much weaker format, even if you do consider it as EDH lite

March 25, 2018 1:05 a.m.

Boza says... #23

I think that cdkime has hit the nail on the head with Arena. This is a format they plan to roll out in rena with Dominaria and that is precisely why they are introducing it now.

March 25, 2018 3:53 a.m.

lilgiantrobot says... #24

So now if I do a draft or play limited there's a use for my cards after? Seems cool. Means I'm open to attending more drafts.

March 25, 2018 10:37 a.m.

Spirit_Logan says... #25

I personally like the idea of brawl. It's a format that allows standard players to dip their toes into EDH and vice versa. I play both standard and EDH, so I am a little biased. I agree with dbpunk that there will be less diversity, but there's still diversity.

March 25, 2018 6:39 p.m.

_Psilo_ says... #26

It gives me something fun to do with all the cards I get from pre-release events and drafts. It's also a nice alternative to Commander that doesn't allow for the expensive and OP cards available to Commander.

As someone who only plays Commander and drafts/pre-repease events, I think I will definitely add that format to my portfolio!

March 25, 2018 9:56 p.m.

MWorl91 says... #27

I had an idea for something very similar to this several months ago so Im super excited for it. I also like how in theory, once your Brawl deck rotates out you could conceivably just upgrade it into an actual Commander deck

March 26, 2018 11:33 a.m.

meatsmith says... #28

y'all are shills for Big-Standard!!1 crazy eyes

MWorl91: I dunno that the brawl decks will ever totally rotate out... doesn't rotation mean that one standard set ends and another takes its place, but the last two standard sets stay in the format until yet another set comes into standard?

or did they change it again?

i don't play standard at all. just don't have interest in it, and even when i did still kinda care, they began banning all the cool infinites/instawins. the format is no fun anymore if you can't make people cry. (not literally, of course)

March 26, 2018 11:47 a.m.

cdkime says... #29

meatsmith

Brawl will be rotating and will follow Standard's ban list.

Standard rotates with the first set of a new block in the fall. The two oldest blocks then rotate out.

Currently, it is Kaladesh, Amonkhet, and Ixalan in standard. Come June, it will be Kaladesh, Amonkhet, Ixalan, and Dominaria, with Core Set 2019 being added to rotation in July, 2018.

Then, in September, there will be a new set released, and Kaladesh and Amonkhet will rotate out. This gives players some time to get used to the new sets before their old decks become obsolete.

March 26, 2018 12:04 p.m.

meatsmith says... #30

Wow, is it my imagination or is this coming rotation the longest we have seen since Khans block was in standard?

Kaladesh block is the best one in standard, imo. i loved everything about that set. like i said i don't do standard, but... man. Kaladesh almost got me to do it.

March 26, 2018 8:09 p.m.

cbeard says... #31

I like Brawl. It is a logical format for Wizards to introduce and I look forward to playing it a lot. I am a collector, and a commander and limited player, and this format piques my interest in experimenting with new cards in casual singleton games. The biggest appeal to Brawl for me is the flatter power level, allowing me to build a strong deck that won't push a more casual player around as much as a tuned Commander deck might.

Brawl decks in historic Standard formats is another take on the format that interests me. Building Brawl decks from old Standard paper cards I collected and found exciting and fresh, for example this Rafiq ALA-ZEN Brawl list, is a concept that highlights the strength of Brawl to me as a casual format for both new and old players who want to play with cards in Standards that excite them, especially the most current one.

Investing in playing with new players and with new products keeps the game healthy, and that is why I am invested in brawl. People who like EDH can stick to EDH; no one is required to play every format.

March 27, 2018 11:52 p.m.

Arthaiser says... #32

is simply edh that rotates, is not going to take off.

March 28, 2018 3 a.m.

kamelyan says... #33

I used to play standard-singleton when I first started playing MTG. It was due to a combination of not understanding the Legend rule and of wanting to play a variety of cards.

I thought that "You can only have one Legend creature" meant that there was only one in your deck; and if I could only have one Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker, it wouldn't be fair to have four copies of Hand of Honor.

Also, I wanted to play a lot of cards. Running four copies of only nine cards, and adding in twenty-four lands? There are over a hundred cards in a set; three sets a block; two blocks and a core set in standard; over 700 cards. And I'm only going to run nine of them?

I ended up running thirty-six individual, nonland cards (or more -looking at you, Battle of Wits) for about a year into my Magicking. Now I exclusively play EDH.

March 29, 2018 1:02 p.m.

somsoc says... #34

There's a lot of negativity in this thread for a new format which need not affect you in any way if you're not interested in it.

It's already apparent that it has wide appeal across different types of players, which is great. Not only 'players new to the game' or 'players who don't spend hundreds on EDH' as some of you are speculating (as if those are bad things). I like playing with different people.

I think deckbuilders who enjoy restrictions and playing with different cards will find something in it.

Just because that might not include you, doesn't make it a bad format.

Personally Brawl had me at 'rotational singleton'. If that's anathema to some, that's fine.

March 30, 2018 8:28 a.m.

xoorath says... #35

Just because that might not include you, doesn't make it a bad format.

YES IT DOES!

j/k, I agree with what you said. Except the usage of anathema. Who uses anathema....

March 30, 2018 9:29 a.m.

Rabid_Wombat says... #36

I was going to comment on this thread a few days ago but decided to suspend my judgement until I played a few games of the new format.

The perfect opportunity arose when an LGS near my hometown announced it was running a Brawl tournament on the weekend so I slapped together a Gishath, Sun's Avatar deck using some store credit (I don't collect Standard and only play Legacy or EDH) and got ready to Brawl!

Pros:

It was a Great feeling knowing that you had a good chance of drawing that card you were hoping for compared to normal the normal "you got no chance of seeing that card" in 100 card Commander decks.

New card pool was varied and ,dare I say it, kinda exciting (at least for me).

Refreshing to meet a few new people who had only ever played Standard before giving this new format a shot.

Cons:

Screwy mana base thanks to the very limited land choices- sure, my playing Naya didn't help matters but if you get frustrated by being mana screwed.....be sure to check out those mono-color decks for Brawl.

The two The Locust God decks at the tourney both went undefeated all day until they met each other in the final. Kinda meh going down to your own Zombie dinos lol. Maybe Locust God needs to be banned in Brawl?? Was most definitely overpowered.

The whole idea of Brawl cards going out of rotation is just plain anti-Commander in my opinion. Just let it be legal from Kaladesh onwards...WotC will still make money and more people will want to get aboard the Brawl train. I can't see Brawl surviving if people just bin their decks after X amount of days.

April 1, 2018 3:05 a.m.

Rabid_Wombat says... #37

My bad mean't to say: The Scarab God was too OP not Locust God ;)

April 1, 2018 3:09 a.m.

cbeard says... #38

Of course Brawl is designed to sell new cards. People say this repeatedly like it is a bad or unreasonable thing. Wizards makes their living by selling new cards; if players stopped collecting them, the game would die, and the dedicated people making the game would have to find new work. (This is the same reason why they make Commander precon, which are widely loved by the community.)

Commander players who embrace Brawl will be rewarded in expanding their collection for both formats in the short and long run. Even if they dont naturally salvage Brawl decks into Commander ones immediately on rotation, they will at least have collected staples and potential gems for a future deck down the road.

I want to hear from players who are excited to build Brawl decks based on KLD/AKH block mechanics. The Scarab God is the most eminent example of a great brawler, but I bet some people have come up with cool Brawl decks for some of Standards less-respected legends.

April 1, 2018 1:05 p.m.

MWorl91 says... #39

Like any new format one top tier deck is going to emerge. I dont think it should be banned. Just have to give people time to build with it in mind. Scarab God is intimidating but Sorcerous Spyglass can go in any brawl deck and shuts down his ability to reanimate

April 3, 2018 1:34 a.m.

Brawl is lazy. I like the idea of a newer EDH. But think going back to an extended format would be better.

We don't need Modern EDH for sure but Standard only? Pretty lame idea. Everyone just pick the 20 best cards and add some removal yayyyy...

Extended would have been perfect.

All that being said, it's clearly being used to launch Arena.

April 3, 2018 3:33 a.m.

Piemanny says... #41

The reason wizard has done this is for the following reason only, And that is to make money from a market where they currently make very little.

EDH only players tend to buy singles from older sets (WOTC doesnt see any money from this secondary market) or EDH products which come out once a year. This means that they spend less than the Standard or modern players on new sets. Sure some might buy a box, or attend a prerelease or draft, but its not sustained.

So for WOTC to try to get EDH players break into the "standard set market" is to give a standard only EDH. This encourages pack buying and could encourage EDH players into standard as they now have more standard legal cards in their collection.

This also drives the price of standard legal cards up as the ones played in standard would likely be played in Brawl, again encouraging pack buying over singles.

Its a nice idea but as others have commented, I doubt it will last.

April 3, 2018 11:13 a.m.

DeathByDesign says... #42

Primarily a standard player here, and I see Brawl as something to do with the cards I have that are not in the deck I'm playing/building/tuning. I play some variant of base white tokens in standard (I have all the cards to build WB Vampires, Abzan Tokens, GW Aggro, and GW tokens). The predominant reason is these decks have either cards in common or cheap cards, but I've opened some good singletons like Chandra, Rekindling Phoenix, and the Scarab God. I don't feel like fleshing out my playsets for $100 each, so I don't get to play them until Brawl where I can build decks with these cards that I otherwise wouldn't be using. Obviously Wizards make decisions to make money, but Brawl is either a bridge for those getting into the game along with Challenger decks (you can probably build a reasonablish brawl deck from buying a booster box) or simply provide an opportunity for entrenched Standard players to play with their non-playset cards who are already playing a rotating format. Brawl isn't meant to, nor will it convert, EDH/Modern/Legacy players. Ultimately, it's just a good thing that more than likely won't have any negative impact (including singleton prices) and will likely be a thing as long as standard is a thing (which means as long as MTG is a thing).

One thing I will say is that the Standard Ban list really shouldn't apply (give me back Smugglers Copter!), because a Jeskai+ deck only has one Brawl Commander in Jodah, Archmage Eternal which is just bad in some non-Wonky 5 color ramp deck, so I doubt Cat Combo would be thing. It would also be very inconsistent even with Aetherworks Marvel and energy.

Also, something to realize with complaints about inconsistency overall is there is a surprising amount of redundancy in Standard at the moment, in my opinion. Ruinous Wake/Vraska's Contempt/Hour of Glory/Battle at the Bridge as your "rare" level black removal (three of which can kill Hazoret). Thopter Arrest/Ixalan's Binding/Cast Out/Angel of Sanctions as your white Oblivion Ring Effects. White/Red/Black each have access to multiple wraths. Basically brawl decks will be defined by role player slots. If you have 8 removal slots in your deck, instead of four Fatal Push/Four Vraska's Contempt, you'll just have eight singleton's that admittedly aren't as efficient, but largely just as effective from Walk the Plank and Moment of Craving to Ravenous Chupacabra and Noxious Gearhulk.

April 3, 2018 2:35 p.m.

Redundancy = Boring

Extended would provide another outlet for new players to play with 3 years or so of cards.

Much better

April 3, 2018 4:02 p.m.
April 3, 2018 4:06 p.m.

JohnnyBaggins says... #45

It's a good idea for a gateway format, but that's it. Combining the "casual" factor of more life points and a commander with a roatiting system tries to combine two factors that appeal to different sorts of magic players. The format is, as I said, a great gateway and will show new players which side of constructed (rotating or card choices) they prefer. That's it. And I don't think they want more out of this. Magic wants to become more accessible to new audiences.

April 3, 2018 8:28 p.m.

TheKing8426 says... #46

BrandonJamesCAC If you believe redundancy is boring, then I'm confused as to why you wouldn't like Brawl. Just like EDH, you can't have playsets of cards, and the nature of a limited card pool leads to more obscure/lesser known cards in decks. As DeathByDesign pointed out, that doesn't always mean they're bad cards. Unless you mean redundancy in terms of needing to play X slots of removal, Y slots of ramp, etc. In this case, every format needs redundancy to produce a consistent deck (even EDH).

Also, it doesn't have to be "pick the best cards and win." While you may be right and that may happen, nothing points to that being the case - look at the other major singleton in EDH: just picking powerful cards doesn't make you win, as you need synergy and overall consistency to make a deck sucessful.

I am intrigued why you think Brawl is inherently "lazy." Is it's card pool being limited to standard lazy? Let me know. And I do agree that it seems to be something to help push Arena and Magic as a whole to a new, more casual audience. But WotC is a company first, so can you blame them? (Yes I can, I have too much product in MTGO lol)

April 3, 2018 10:39 p.m.

Hey TheKing8426 - what I meant by reduncancy was on a macro level. There are only X types of each X effect you're looking for.

So every deck will most likely have the same one of removal, same one of Counterspells and same one of draw spells.

What I mean by lazy is that Wizards was lazy in the format release. I'm not calling the player base a collective "Lazy".

This was a great opportunity to promote a format that standard players would enjoy and newer players wouldn't be overwhelmed by.

Shit.... I have been playing Modern forever and I don't know what the Hell half of these EDH staples even do.

But it should have used the Extended rotation schedule

And let's be honest here

This already exists. People play EDH however they feel like it, save for "try hards"

  • I also play mainly online so no judgement! *

Thanks!

April 4, 2018 9:07 a.m.

somsoc says... #48

There's already plenty of extended formats and they realise it's a turn-off to a lot of players. The wider the format the higher the average power level, the more the decks stagnate into the same best-of staples, the more the prices of these staples rise and exclude newer players or players on a budget. Just several reasons why they kept it limited to the current standard pool.

@DeathByDesign: I think no-bans Brawl is a definite possibility. It's worth testing. Copter was oppressive in standard as a four-of, but in singleton you might only see it 1/4 games. That said, everyone who is going for the extreme value decks would play it, so it might force everyone to bring artifact removal or some of the new 'anti historic' removal. Probably too format warping. But Emmy and bounce-cat should probably get a reprieve!

April 4, 2018 3:35 p.m.

TheKing8426 says... #49

I understand what you're saying about one ofs, BrandonJamesCAC, because there will be tiers and there will be people playing very slight variations of the same deck, so even if there were large options for card draw / removal / counters, the best would be played. However, this problem already plagues every format - ie for cantrips, in Legacy, every blue deck plays Ponder (and some Ponder + Preordain) over Serum Visions and others, but in Modern, Serum Visions (and since XLN, Opt is seeing more play) is the go-to since Ponder/Preordain/G-Probe are banned; in Standard, Opt and Glimmer are the most seen, even though there is Inspiration, Chart a Course, among others. The cream always rises to the top, as it were. So, while I do understand your distaste for this phenomenon, there's not really a way around it. I hope that made sense.

Also, I think rotation was the easiest way to keep Brawl from being EDH Lite, since it just becomes a highlander variant. Plus, I feel like they lost nothing from this venture; they only gain. The EDH players that do want to play will come and buy product, the Standard players that get frustrated from FNM will keep themselves in the rotating system, and new players unwilling to shell out 300 to have a top tier deck in Standard can have a competitive Brawl deck for way less, introducing them to not just Standard, but Magic as a whole. But, I'm not discussing anything here that's different than what most people have inferred is the purpose of Brawl.

April 4, 2018 4:12 p.m.

DeathByDesign says... #50

somsoc: Smuggler's Copter would probably again be ubiquitous in Brawl, but at least it's a solid "creature" that can't be converted by the Scarab God. I would have liked to see Heart of Kiran and Smuggler's Copter fight it out for dominance, especially since Heart is an answer to Smuggler's Copter along with Aethersphere Harvester, Fatal Push, Lightning Strike, and Abrade that they've since printed. The difference between them is small for me in my experience with them as I always disliked the second copy of Smuggler's Copter. Plus, I want the opportunity to viably play it alongside Drake Haven, which would be sweet.

April 4, 2018 4:46 p.m.

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