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Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on May 25, 2017, 2:04 a.m. by golffore297
In light of recent posts from moderators, I have deleted the contents of this thread.
It looks quite real because there's existing cards in there with the logo that's supposed to be the one for the new Commander set. My main point of concern seeing all these is that... the CMC of the dragon deck must be huge, unless they have a LOT of ramp + colorfixing this deck must be horrible to play with.... (so many cards with CMC 5-7+ is just ridiculous, most of them with at least 3 sources of a particular color as well)
May 25, 2017 6:24 a.m.
Seems like an awful lot of legendaries.
I'd still buy it.
May 25, 2017 7:19 a.m. Edited.
I hope its true. The flavor is unreal. O-Kagachi, I will buy this deck just for you. And Ur-Dragon? Holy shit.
May 25, 2017 7:41 a.m.
I now really want to make a cat dragon tribal deck if/when these cards come out
May 25, 2017 8:33 a.m.
landofMordor says... #8
Yikes. Those cards are crazy powerful. Probably the way they will weaken the pre-con is by having so many legendaries that there isn't room for Scourge of Valkas and Crucible of Fire, haha.
It makes me wonder what the other tribes will be. I think we're safe to say Esper Zombies at this point. But the other two decks? Jeskai Merfolk and Naya Humans? Or maybe it's something more off-the-wall (which I am really hoping for) like Gruul Werewolves, Mardu Samurai, and so forth. It seems like, if the leak is true, WotC is playing up the "legendary" aspect of these tribals, which implies that any tribe they print has to have enough splashy legendaries to make it compete with Dragons.
May 25, 2017 8:50 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #9
I hope this doesn't mean that we won't be getting five color legends that AREN'T tribal focused...
May 25, 2017 9:10 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #11
Well obviously I'm talking about after tribal commander.
If WotC thinks that five color must mean tribal, that's what worries me.
May 25, 2017 9:15 a.m.
Taigam dropped since I looked last night -- That's really good! Plays into dragons but aims more toward a control strategy. MP2 focus? YES PLEASE!
May 25, 2017 10:05 a.m.
I was about to say check the link, but he's gotten rid of them!
For those wondering about Taigam's Abilities:
Instant, Sorceries and Dragon Spells can't be countered.
If you cast an instant or sorcery and Taigam has attacked this turn, those spells gain Rebound.
Trust, but Verify, but also hyped.
May 25, 2017 10:42 a.m.
Ramos (the legendary artifact dragon) is an auto-include in the Progenitus deck I have not built yet :)
May 25, 2017 11:36 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #17
Ramos seems like fun, and eases my worries that WotC couldn't see five-color as anything but tribal space.
May 25, 2017 11:56 a.m.
He took the pics down. I'm thinking he got a call from wotc' lawyers. I think these are legit.
May 25, 2017 12:38 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #20
Rip in peace T1thoughtseize, you were an ok source of content. Definitely dead in the eyes of wotc after this.
But Ramos really does it for me. mmm
May 25, 2017 12:45 p.m. Edited.
RedUndead40 says... #21
I think Im just more excited to run O-Kagachi and The Ur Dragon in the 99 of my Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck than I am about the new deck itself
May 25, 2017 12:52 p.m.
Apparently this instagram page changed it's name to T1 for some reason, the real T1 on twitter was alerting people to it with old screengrabs. Kinda shitty that someone'd try and ruin someone else with stuff like this.
May 25, 2017 1:03 p.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #23
UR Dragon got my theme deck jimmies all rustled....
May 25, 2017 6:40 p.m.
Me right about now. I can use any of 4 legendary dragons without worrying in case one of them becomes an Atraxa, Praetors' Voice? MINE MINE MINE!!!
May 25, 2017 7:21 p.m.
both the Ur-dragon and Ramos looks awesome in the 99 with a Scion the Ur dragon commander. Taigam is a maybe that could prove his worth, but the other two are sort of meh to me......Drgnnnnnnns!
May 25, 2017 7:46 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #27
Wow, nearly all of those cards are amazing! I do not have time to comment on all of them, but it is nice to finally have cards of Taigam and O-Kagachi, two characters who were very important to the stories of the blocks in which they appeared. As awesome as O-Kagachi is, why is he a dragon? Nothing in the story suggested that he was a dragon, so he should be only a spirit, in my mind (not that I am complaining, because that allows him to work in a dragon-themed deck).
Chrosis and Intet are being reprinted, again, but still no Dromar? Will he ever been reprinted?
Wasitora is amazing, and I must definitely put her into my red/black/green deck; perhaps she could replace Broodmate Dragon, as she is superior to it in almost every way.
Has Ramos ever been mentioned in the story, before? That name sounds very familiar, but I cannot recall where I have heard it, before; is he the same Ramos from the Ramos cycle (i.e., Heart of Ramos, Eye of Ramos, etc)?
The Ur-Dragon is as powerful as its name suggests it should be, but 9 mana is too low for a 10/10 creature with those awesome abilities. It should, at the very least, cost 11 mana for it to be balanced, in my mind.
If these are cards from one of the decks, I am now very excited to see the rest of this set. I can hardly wait until previews for it officially begin!
May 25, 2017 11:07 p.m.
These new cards are epic, I can't imagine what they'll do for the other 3 tribal decks.
May 26, 2017 2:31 a.m.
Actually, this makes me wonder whether Hellkite Overlord or Dragon Broodmother are going to be in there. Especially Broodmother. It seems to synergise very well with some of the currently leaked cards, and it's pretty pricy considering it sees only casual play.
May 26, 2017 7:09 a.m.
DemonDragonJ: O-Kagachi has been depicted before. The head is hard to tell, but the rest match. Final Judgment. And I believe that Ramos has been mentioned before, and yes, this is the Ramos from the Heart of Ramos cycle.
May 26, 2017 8:54 a.m.
This year's Commander release will focus on iconics. Commander comes out at the end of August, and Iconic Masters comes out a month and a half after http://edit.magic.wizards.com/en/products/iconic-masters. It's just too easy an opportunity to pass up the guaranteed market for Iconic Masters following a heavy-hitting Commander set. Both products will sell very well, and just in time for the holidays.
For the other three decks, Angels and Demons will end up sharing a deck, with sphinxes and hydras each getting their own. Now, I don't know if the angel/demon product will be 5-color, Mardu, or just B/W, but they have overlap in every color but green. Sphinxes will be at least U/W, and Hydras will probably be WUBRG or Naya.
Please don't report me to the Wizard-police.
May 28, 2017 11:48 a.m.
Sphinxes and hydras sound boring to me. I'd prefer different tribes.
May 28, 2017 12:21 p.m.
I don't agree with that one bit. May as well print Consecrated Sphinx not once, not twice, but THREE times this year.
May 28, 2017 12:37 p.m.
Agent_Fire: check out the "premium deck series: slivers". It might be what you're looking for.
May 28, 2017 6:58 p.m.
Agent_Fire says... #36
I want Commander deck with new slivers that only affect you.
May 28, 2017 7:05 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #37
I actually think that O-Kagachi, while powerful, does not match how he was portrayed in the story, where his power was vast and overwhelming, being that he is the ruler of the kami. I feel that his card should have been similar to those of Progenitus or the three eldrazi titans in terms of power. Does anyone else here find him to be slightly underwhelming?
As a side note, does O-Kagachi's name have a translation in English? I know that "O" is the Japanese word for "king" or "ruler," but does "kagachi" have any meaning?
May 28, 2017 10:30 p.m.
DemonDragonJ Others have tried to make sense of it in two ways.
1) This represents the character itself being arrogant enough to use only a fraction of its true power.
2) The flavor is perfect, it's an overcooked card with an underwhelming ability. Kamigawa is written all over it.
Tbf I'm excited that Kamigawa is seeing some attention, I love some of the ideas of the block. Most of it was just bad though.
May 29, 2017 5:14 a.m.
DemonDragonJ: I don't know Kamigawa lore that well, but I believe this is O-Kagachi after Konda, Lord of Eiganjo stole its heart (i.e. That Which Was Taken).
May 29, 2017 8:35 a.m. Edited.
O-Kagachi never asked for this. Poor spirit dragon.
It still should've cost one or two more and had indestructible.
May 29, 2017 11:54 a.m.
DarkLaw I was thinking along the lines of a divinity counter ability similar to the Myojin.
When you cast O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami it enters the battle with a divinity counter on it. O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami is indestructible as long as it has a divinity counter on it.
Remove a divinity counter from O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami: Exile all other creatures.
Or they could have gone with a death trigger similar to the other legendary spirit dragons.
When O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami dies, exile all creatures.
May 29, 2017 4:51 p.m.
And after checking out Phaetion's link, those abilities don't fit with the lore behind O-Kagachi.
May 29, 2017 4:57 p.m.
It makes sense though. That Which Was Taken was O-Kagachi's heart, and that's what made him indestructible. Instead, it was Konda that gained the keyword.
As for the trigger, look at it this way: An opponent attacks you (steals That Which Was Taken). You attack (starting the Kami War), then you connect, getting the trigger (Getting back for stealing TWWT).
O-Kagachi not being indestructible also makes sense because Kyodai (TWWT) and Michiko Konda kill him.
May 29, 2017 8:17 p.m.
Flavorfully, then, he should be a 0/1 spirit dragon corpse, but that's not how it works, is it? Good gameplay is more important than flavor, so I vote for indestructible. I mean, it dies to Go for the Throat, when it should really die to 8. It doesn't ever gain indestructible, even.
phc That seems too similar to Myojin of Cleansing Fire. I prefer the idea of "each other nonland permanent".
I like the idea of O-Kagachi's current templating with something like this added.
"Indestructible. When you are dealt combat damage, O-Kagachi loses indestructible. When O-Kagachi attacks the last player who dealt combat damage to you, it gains indestructible."
Make it cost one more, and it seems way more interesting.
May 30, 2017 6:11 a.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #46
All legendary creature cards represent that character at a specific moment in the timeline. O-Kagachi is depicted here AFTER having his divinity stolen (but clearly before Kyodai an michiko went all Ozzy Ozbourne and bit off his heads).
You aren't wrong that having indestructible would make the card more interesting and far more powerful but frankly it would make zero sense thematically. And while you say that good gameplay is more important than flavor, you can't just go around giving all the cool creatures indestructible whenever you felt like it... it would lead to BAD GAMEPLAY.
I like O-Kagachi because it uses an underdeveloped design space in the "retaliatory" department. I agree though that his ability isn't as strong as it should be (flavor wise) and should have triggered on simply "Attacking" as opposed to "dealing combat damage" the player that hit you.
May 30, 2017 12:45 p.m.
I would change what I said earlier about the text it should have, because I think it should involve divinity counters. Such a wasted opportunity.
LittleBlueHero At the same time, why deliberately power down a creature notorious for being powerful by picking the period of time where it's at its weakest (apart from dead)? Actually, even worse- this is possibly the least interesting they could have made it while loosely clinging to its flavor. As is, O-Kagachi is barely better and less splashable than Steel Hellkite, so they stuck it at mythic because... It's 5-color?
I digress.
There's no reason that WotC couldn't just say: "Yeah, O-Kagachi is represented in how he was before the war, so he's indestructible." Or anything interesting other than a very conditional Utter End when it attacks. It can't even hit lands. Had he had indestructible, or a flavorfully on/off indestructible referencing the Kami war, he would have been way less fragile and therefore more interesting.
May 30, 2017 3:02 p.m.
RedUndead40 says... #48
I think the flavor is fine.
That being said there is a desperate need for at least one indestructible dragon in Magic. If anything so I can have a response to Wrath of God in my Scion deck :P
May 30, 2017 4:26 p.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #49
DarkLaw I agree that the card itself is lackluster when compared to what a lot of mythics have shown us they can be in the past.
The rarity does seem off as its not nearly as powerful as it could be with mythic rarity. I think its power was probably tweaked more than once to make the card fit INTO a tribal dragon deck without making it the face card. If they made it Indestructible or even able to become so with a divinity counter I think it may have become the go to commander for the deck, and I think they wanted Ur-Dragon to be the primary commander for sales reasons. It sucks when you think that we get an underpowered card because it was shoehorned into a Preconstructed deck.
That could be WHY they chose to use his non-divine form as opposed to his pre-war form. Also there isn't any real magic story pre-war to go from.
It could be really awesome if they did another Planar Chaos type set/block down the line were we get a version of O-Kagachi where he succeeded in regaining his divinity. Thats a card I would love to see.
May 31, 2017 11:03 a.m.
Btw I don't know if anybody has posted this yet, but this is so goddamn cute. I don't even like cats, but this one...
DemonDragonJ Earlier you mentioned Wasitora being better than Broodmate Dragon. I think you're right in a vacuum with singleton decks and no ETB combos. But the key thing about Broodmate Dragon (other than triggering stuff like Dragon Tempest twice instantly) is that it's really good in multiples, when copied, or when the trigger is copied. Kicking Rite of Replication sounds way more attractive on Broodmate than Wasitora, even if you have Mirror Gallery.
And now I'm thinking of Replicating the Ur-dragon with Mirror Gallery on the battlefield. Great.
To cap off a long post, I would like to voice my concerns that many good dragons are mythics and that WotC can't reprint enough good ones (as I said earlier, Dragon Broodmother seems like a perfect fit so I'll be sad if it isn't in there) to make the deck interesting. Then again, there are only 4 decks this year, I think it's supposed to be a celebration of Magic's 30th anniversary or something, and WotC often knows what it's doing, so I hope they can bend the rules a bit this year.
OmegaAura113 says... #2
WOAH. I can totally believe these leaks, since those legends (Ur-dragon and O-Kagachi) are cards that have been key to past stories, but never created. SOOO happy one's Dragon Tribal (favorite tribe, tied with Zombies)!
May 25, 2017 6:20 a.m.