Guilds of Ravnica: Spoilers and Speculation
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Aug. 27, 2018, 12:04 p.m. by landofMordor
It's spoiler season!
There have been a few recent threads talking about new cards we might see in the new Guilds of Ravnica, but there's no central location yet.
So, enjoy: please discuss official spoilers as they become available, and until then, throw your hat in the ring for characters/cards/mechanics you think we'll see!
AgentGreen says... #2
For most of you; this will not be your first trip to Ravnica
For some (like me); this is my first trip. As a control player I know that Azorius is more control based, but what is Dimir like for control?
August 31, 2018 8:49 a.m.
I like jump-start, I think. My concern is that it’s like flashback (which I love), but may be harder to cost appropriately. Cards with flashback can have a higher flashback cost, but it sounds like the jump start cost is just the normal cost, so my fear is WotC will need to increase the casting cost of a lot of jump start cards to the point where not many will be playable...
August 31, 2018 10:04 a.m.
landofMordor says... #4
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor, concerning Mentor, I'm optimistic. On the face of it, it might be "worse" than Bolster, but that's assuming that you're using them the same way, to win a war of attrition. Mentor, on the other hand, is helping to close out a game and keep your aggressive creatures relevant into the mid-game. So I expect to see the stats on Mentor creatures be a little more aggressive to compensate for a less versatile ability.
saj0219, you're almost certainly right concerning Jump-Start. It's gonna be hard to cost those cards appropriately, considering you can effectively have 8 copies of each in your deck. I expect to see a 3-mana Disperse and a 3-mana Lightning Strike and so forth, cards that won't be super exciting, but playable as 1- or 2-ofs.
August 31, 2018 10:23 a.m.
AgentGreen says... #5
I believe jump-start has a base cost; but to trigger you have to discard a card as well. With Izzet that shouldn't be too hard to do
August 31, 2018 10:54 a.m.
Honestly, these sound really boring.
Mentor is Yet Another Attack with Multiple Dudes Trigger; and does not fit the Boros flavorfully. It sounds like a worse version of Bolster (Abzan Advantage) as it is way more restrictive.
Jump-start is a one-time Retrace (Flame Jab) and the name sounds more Unstable than Izzet. Or a strictly worse Flashback (Think Twice), your choice.
Surveil is exactly like explore (Merfolk Branchwalker), except it can't put lands in your hand.
Undergrowth needs more info, as it is really unclear how it works from that reddit post.
Convoke is well... convoke, it is the Nth time we are seeing it, good old convoke! Still, not really exciting, more tried and true.
Good job Wizards! Everyone gets bad versions of older mechanics in Ravnica!
Now that the mechanics are known, please excuse while I go order 10 Huatli, Radiant Champion. What other card will jump just based on the mechanics?
August 31, 2018 11:02 a.m. Edited.
AgentGreen you do have to discard a card as well, but that's not really a cost. Basically it represents that you turned the discarded card into whatever card you jump-started. (e.g. it's not really card disadvantage because you just replaced the discarded card's effect with whatever the jump-started card was)
August 31, 2018 11:03 a.m.
landofMordor says... #8
Boza, you have a point that none of this is exactly new ground. It might be good to get a quick nostalgia hit, but ultimately might not impress in the long term. But in their defense, based on the Twitch stream, what these mechanics convey flavor-wise is that each guild is kinda retreating within its own Gates, battening down the hatches for the impending conflict. From that standpoint, Mentor and Surveil especially make a better flavor match. Concerning Undergrowth, it's essentially a X-quantity that scales with your grave, and is therefore going to be extremely versatile (it's the one I'm looking forward to the most).
August 31, 2018 11:12 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #9
As a primarily Grixis player, I think the overlap between Surveil and jump-start could be very juicy. Dump cards in your own graveyard to increase your card selection? Do we know if either of those abilities are sorcery speed only?
August 31, 2018 11:35 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #10
Boza - I agree that these are more like adaptations of older mechanics than new fresh abilities, but I think their ceiling can be pretty high if implemented correctly (which is why I am intrigued). Take Surveil for example. If they implement it like Scry, then it will be amazing and better than Scry, but if they implement it like Explore (mostly a creature exclusive mechanic) then it will be pretty bad.
The same goes for Jump-Start. Concerns about CMC have already been brought up so I won't retread that here, but if cards are reasonably priced then it becomes a better Flashback and more a versatile Retrace.
I kind of suspect Undergrowth to be either a better Delirium or maybe (crosses fingers) a fixed Dredge. Either way, I think it can be very strong.
landofMordor - I guess if a bunch of Mentor creatures are panned to be more aggressive with high power and lower CMC, then I can get onboard. But I am wary of combat triggered mechanics as they are easy to interrupt and often aren't useful when playing from behind. Plus I have a feeling that a lot of Mentor creatures will be X/1's or X/2's which seem really bad in the current meta.
August 31, 2018 12:07 p.m.
Hmm.
Sultai Ascendancy
At the beginning of your upkeep, surveil 2.
Was this a hidden trial run?
August 31, 2018 2:40 p.m.
My thoughts on these abilities:
Convoke - I'm kind of hoping there will be another Selesnia ability which is being kept in the back pocket. After all, Ravnica 2 saw the reuse of Ravnica 1 abilities--it's quite possible Selesnia will have Convoke return AND get a new ability. Otherwise, I suppose this is a perfectly acceptable, albeit not exciting, ability.
Boros - I was really hoping Boros would receive something new, flashy, and strong in multiplayer, to help those colours get some in Commander. This isn't too exciting, but it does help make your 1/2 drops something other than a dead draw. I suspect we will see this on a lot of aggressively costed, powerful creatures with low toughness.
Surveil - I think Boza made a good point comparing this to the recent explore mechanic. I think explore is a fine mechanic, just not that interesting. I'm sort of in the same boat for Surveil as well. I'm hoping to see an anti-Opt (Surveil 1, then return card from graveyard to hand).
Jump-Start - not a fan of the name, but I'm interested in how this plays. I disagree with Boza's stance this will be a strictly worse flashback--flashback tends to be a pretty expensive ability to activate--this could have a pretty low mana cost for the "flashback" effect, while also enabling other strategies. I would not be surprised to see a 3 mana Lightning Bolt that can be Jump-Started for .
Undergrowth - Curious to see how this plays out, but I honestly hate this type of mechanic. In paper, it's a bit annoying to keep track of how many cards are in your graveyard--I'll probably be bringing extra dice to prerelease on the offchance I'm in Golgari.
August 31, 2018 2:51 p.m.
Now, however down I may have sounded in terms of the mechanics, Ravnica is still my favorite plane, so I am OK with anything Ravnica - I just want it to be a step up from the previous sets. This is the only plane (sans Dominaria) which we have revisited for the third time. There are great expectations, both in terms of this being a Ravnica set, and because of the whole Bolas story thing.
However, none of the mechanics sound particularly exciting. It is sort of weaving the story into cards, but even with an impending invasion the Boros Legion would not batter down the hatches, stop patrolling the streets and suddenly start staying home and mentoring their people?
The subterfuge of the Dimir and their schtick of not really being part of the Guildpact, being unseen and unnoticed, is kind of not really conveyed by them being scouts and Surveying?
Are the crazy machines of the izzet so broken down they need to be Jump started?
Have the Selesnya tried the Populate stuff and said, nah, we are going back 12 years, this is not for us?
Creatures in the yard is a really fun thing, but it does not really differ or set apart the Golgari from any of their previous iterations, nor does it convey anything different this time about them. They are supposed to be under the rule of a gorgon planeswalker, their previous leader killed by Bolas, yet they do the same thing?
Overall, I am hopeful, but ultimately wary. I will be playing in the prerelease even if I think the set/mechanics are bad, because it is Ravnica and no matter how hard WOTC tries, they cannot possibly mess up Ravnica, right?
September 1, 2018 3:54 a.m.
landofMordor says... #14
Boza, I feel you there for sure! My first booster was RTR (pretty sure I opened Volatile Rig, or immediately traded away my Hallowed Fountain for Azor's Elocutors
facepalm), and my first prerelease was GTC (I wanted Boros, but drafted Gruul with my little brother so that we wouldn't have to sit alone amidst a bunch of strange middle-aged men...), so I also have a high nostalgia quotient for Ravnica.
I think I'm going to have to see what knobs R&D turned with regard to these new mechanics before I make a verdict. If Mentor is the icing on top of a well-statted, complex cake, it'd be a far cry from just slapping Mentor on top of a French vanilla creature. Same with Surveil (which, although it's only a typo away from "Survey", carries a much more sneaky connotation!), Undergrowth, and the rest.
I can actually really see the flavor hit of Undergrowth. The underclasses of the Golgari (gorgons and Kraul) have revolted after gathering their strength, and now the Golgari, themselves the underclass of Ravnica, are poised to grow into a position of power! But none of that is possible without the dead (RIP Jarad?) who fuel their growth.
September 1, 2018 7:49 a.m.
Despite being a group largely made up of skilled necroshamans (that might not be a word), the Golgari Swarm seems to have a problem with their leaders dying off at inconvenient times. I'm hoping Vraska survives.
Actually, as far as the story goes, I'm kind of hoping at least one major planeswalker who's not named Nicol Bolas dies on Ravnica. Without going full rant mode, he was unnecessarily merciful on Amonkhet.
September 1, 2018 11:24 a.m.
Honestly the new mechanics sound interesting if they're applied right.
If the Boros mechanic isn't just applied on low level creatures it could be really good in some mechanics. For example, imagine if we get ones that let you Mentor multiple creatures. And in that case, we may get some really cool low level creatures that wanna be mentored and have effects relating to that.
The Dimir mechanic seems like a less creature only explore, which isn't bad. But it really needs to be set well into your cards and hopefully acts the same way scry would. It really depends though.
Jump-start, though extremely silly sounding in terms of names, might actually be interesting to play around with. Especially since it's pretty much a delver based mechanic.
We all know what convoke can do in good. But it should hopefully be mostly instant speed cards that use it.
Hopefully undergrowth is good. It could be extremely similar to Delirium, which is what I'm hoping for. At worst, it may be a weird play on Threshhold type abilities. So far, we don't know.
September 1, 2018 7:41 p.m.
You know, after The Unspeakable disaster that was Emmara Tandris, I hope they make a new, much better version of her that ensures she doesn't punch an elephant to death...oh wait! She was leaked as a championship promo! Too bad I can't post the image, considering it was leaked. I'll just send you guys to the MTGS post to save myself from being axed from the site.
September 1, 2018 8:25 p.m. Edited.
AgentGreen says... #18
Big info of the set posted
A couple of points
Shock-lands reprits confirmed
A new masterpiece sub-set being released separately; called Guilds of Ravinca: Mythic Edition. Contains 16 boosters plus 8 "Masterpiece Boosters". Roughly $250 MSRP
September 1, 2018 11:41 p.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #19
That Mythic Edition is the biggest FU EVER to all the Game Stores who put MTG on the map through countless hours of hard work through running FNMs, Pre-Releases etc... Shame on you for such a blatant cash grab Ha$bro.
And we can't even order the set here in Australia (or anywhere Overseas for that matter) because Wizards now only care about sales in USA and Canada - whatever!
So glad I ditched Standard years ago for Legacy, EDH and 93/94 old school - hopefully the one game store left in my hometown won't be bankrupted by this BS so I'll still have somewhere to Roll dice and flop cards.
September 2, 2018 7:16 a.m.
landofMordor says... #20
Some official spoilers from PAX are live!
I officially love Surveil, seeing that it's being implemented as a rider on top of already playable cards like Cancel analogs. And it also looks like Mentor/Jump-start, likewise, are going to be riders on top of already-playable spells, which seems pushed from a design perspective but awesome as a player (:
And Shocks!!! And a sweet, powerful, janky new Emmara (might become my first EDH deck).
The new Ral seems powerful...but I am a little dubious. In particular, his -3 ability seems to be sacrificing flavor for playing better with Jump-start, which seems a little ham-handed, and his ultimate is a little too obviously pushed to be appealing for me as a Vorthos/Johnny.
September 2, 2018 7:27 a.m.
Completely agree landofMordor, might be time for that edh deck! Also share your thoughts about Ral.
And the ltd ed 'Masterpiece' thing is bullsh*t tbf
September 2, 2018 7:50 a.m.
landofMordor says... #22
legendofa, I definitely think "necroshaman" is fair game(; I second your wishes for Vraska to survive (and maybe date our emotionally stable, new, only-slightly-retconned Jace).
As for Bolas' mercy on Amonkhet...I see your point from a player perspective (i.e. it makes for a poor story where there's no threat of genuine defeat), but as far as Bolas himself is concerned, I think his move made total sense. Since Bolas is an extremely powerful, solipsistic being, he doesn't want to kill someone if he can force them into servitude, or ruin their mind at the thought of his awesomeness. So he was toying with the Gatewatch, sure, but it was because of one of his core personality traits. So the fight ended up with: Jace only escaping because of Ugin's safeguards, Lili kept alive so Bolas could extract a vow of loyalty, etc etc. But on Ravnica, I think Bolas (or more likely, his servants) won't pull many punches.
September 2, 2018 8:01 a.m.
AgentGreen says... #23
Bolas anticipated everything. The only thing he did not anticipate is Jace being on Ixalan and learning his endgame.
That's where the difference maker is going to be
September 2, 2018 10:07 a.m.
The new Lich is going to look awesome with Lord Windgrace. Picked it up already.
September 2, 2018 10:58 a.m.
landofMordor Bolas didn't need to spare the entire Gatewatch. Killing the virtually unkillable Gideon, for example, would have proven his superiority quite nicely and given the others a way to spread his fame, I think.
Aside from debating story, I seem to be seeing a Future Sight reprint that I'm very surprised to see here. It's a natural fit with surveil, but is it native to Ravnica as well as Iquatana? (By now, either you know exactly what I'm talking about or you don't.)
September 2, 2018 11:46 a.m.
Magic: The Gathering-Infinity War coming to (theaters) bookstores near you.
September 2, 2018 12:18 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #27
Well I am glad to be proven wrong and see the shocklands be reprinted. I hope they now tank in price, though that is unlikely.
As someone who just built a Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer deck, Quasiduplicate is very intriguing.
With the few cards spoiled so far, I am very pleased to see how both surveil and jump-start are being on placed on playable cards. Undergrowth also looks strong. I think I need to see more mentor cards to call that a success. However, that goblin is pretty pushed.
Underrealm Litch and Emmara win it for me though. The Litch is an insta-include in any golgari EDH deck, and as Phaetion pointed out, will be accepted with open arms into most Lord Windgrace decks. Plus that flavor text is just amazing. Now Emmara is a token commander in that I can get behind. Such a cool ability that (to me) differs considerably from the traditional, bland commanders. All at 2 cmc as well!
On the lore side of things. I saw someone mentioning that the Concave Tribunal artwork appears a little inquesty for the Selesnya. Could they have perhaps been swayed by Bolas? Or are could they be fanatically rooting out Bolas's cronies on Ravnica? Either way, it seems a bit dark for them. Also, it is sweet to see the Dimir acting as the good guys!
September 2, 2018 12:26 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #28
Interesting! So what happens to the web story then? Also, IS THAT KAYA JOINING THE GATEWATCH!?
September 2, 2018 12:29 p.m.
Emmara's ability will coincidentally work pretty well with convoke.
September 2, 2018 2:29 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #32
After further deliberating the new guild mechanics, I like undergrowth and surveil very much, but jumpstart is essentially a worse version of flashback and mentor is nowhere near as exciting as was battalion.
On a more positive subject, I am very glad that the shocklands are being reprinted, again, because they are always in demand, and this shall help to lower their prices, again.
However, the fact that they have been printed only on Ravnica is disappointing, because they were designed to work on any plane across the multiverse, a subject that I definitely believe is worthy of its own thread.
September 2, 2018 3:33 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #33
The image of Kaya with Gideon and Chandra does, indeed, suggest that she may join the Gatewatch, and it also does lend credibility to the fan theory that she shall form an alliance with Teysa to dispose of the Obzedat.
September 2, 2018 3:42 p.m.
DemonDragonJ: It makes a lot of sense. Kaya's our planeswalking Ghostbuster, so it would be fitting if she has a role in ending the Obzedat.
September 2, 2018 3:52 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #35
Phaetion, also, with the Obezdat out of the way, Teysa would likely become the new leader of the Orzhov guild, which I believe would be foreshadowing potential further appearances of Ravnica in the future.
I do hope that the story addresses Jace's repeated absences from Ravnica, due to him being the living guildpact, as there is no way that his absences have not been having an effect upon the plane.
September 2, 2018 3:58 p.m.
So they just posted a Guilds of Ravnica trailer and it confirmed some story/idea suspicions I've had before.
First scene kinda confirmed my guess that the Conclave (or some version of them) is going to be primarily interested in protecting their own and returning as a legendary.
Secondly, we got a guess that the Dimir are protecting Ravnica from either Bolas. But also there's something more sinister. They're continuing with their discoveries apparently.
It also looks like there's some type of vast militarization of the Boros turning Ravnica into a military state.
I think it also shows some first look at some new legendaries in the set, specifically the Boros and the Golgari legendaries (dude with the hammer and spider lady) but also potentially Izzet.
Also I think that may be a new planeswalker burning the scroll.
September 2, 2018 5:52 p.m.
All I want is a Past in Flames style effect for jump-start (preferably on an enchantment, but I’ll take it on anything)
September 2, 2018 7:50 p.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #38
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor Shocklands will tank in price early on due to amount of boosters people will opening as part of the "Mythic Jank Edition" - you get like half a box of boosters with the "Masterpieces" so yeah, expect to see them hit $10-$15.
September 2, 2018 8:18 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #39
Rabid_Wombat - I don't think that is how this weird new masterpiece set works. My understanding (and I could be wrong because there seems to be a bit of confusion about it) is that it's a booster box of 24 packs, 8 of them are specially marked and hold one of the 8 masterpiece planeswalkers (I believe at random). On top of that, those boxes/packs are limited edition meaning there will be fewer in circulation and it looks like their MSRP will be around $250. Due to limited supply and a higher MSRP, I don't think those specifically will impact how much GRN will be opened. Instead it will likely rely more on if the set is any good or not.
I kind of expect the shock lands to drop in price very early on in the set, but rather quickly rebound in price due to demand for standard play. Kind of like what the fetches did during Khans.
September 2, 2018 9 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #40
Oops one correction: all 8 of the masterpieces will be in the box (not at random) and the packs aren't specially marked (for drafting purposes I guess?).
September 2, 2018 9:08 p.m.
I wish those masterpieces weren't foil. I'd pick up that Elspeth in a heartbeat. looks at the hole in her armor Oh wait...
September 2, 2018 9:26 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #42
Phaetion, what is wrong with foil cards? I like foil cards, because they are shiny.
Also, I just learned that these planeswalker masterpieces will not be in the booster packs for this set, they shall be available only in a special boxed set that shall cost over $200 to purchase, so I presume that not too many people shall be purchasing these cards, which shall cause them to be insanely expensive.
September 2, 2018 9:40 p.m.
DemonDragonJ: It's because they warp and bend too easily. Where I am, the humidity is ridiculous in the morning, so I can't even handle the card unsleeved unless I have the A/C on. In the distant past, a lot of my Yugioh foils warped with some serious curling. And they're more expensive too. I hate that the new BaB exclusives (bad enough already) and the Commander precons have new cards exclusively in foil. It drives me nuts to no end.
Let's just put it down to me having a bad history with foils.
September 2, 2018 9:56 p.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #44
DemonDragonJ the planeswalker Masterpiece cards do actually come in their own little "random" booster pack due to drafting being a thing. Oh yeah, as heaps of people will be scalping these new Mythic sets they will sell out in a couple of days...expect the Hasbro website to crash (a lot),
September 2, 2018 10:40 p.m.
I have seen the spoilers of the cards and I am now a bit more excited. New comments on mechanics:
Mentor is still a bad, unexciting mechanic. Goblin warboss is a bad imitation of Goblin Rabblemaster and it should feel bad. I had low expectations and I am still disappointed.
Jump-start is intersting. Quasiduplicate or whatever it is an improvement on Cackling Counterpart, but that is not really saying much. It is an improvement over Spitting Image. But now that I see how the mechanic works on a card, I am not hopeful it can support a deck on its own, it seems strictly a support mechanic, which is not too bad. Mild interest in Jump-start, name still sucks.
Undergrowth is interesting. It is a really simple one, but effective nontheless. The removal previewed was nice and I think that we can see a lot more from it. It has the possibility that it will create some broken modern card. High excitement for undergrowth.
Surveil is interesting - we have a surveil 1 Cancel, which is the obligatory Cancel variant of the set. It is interesting and most importantly, works with Jump Start and undergrowth (more with undergrowth). I foresee a Grixis Control deck with Jump Start and surveil and Nicol Bolas being a top dog in Standard.
Convoke, no new card, but new Emmara is stupidly powerful with convoke in the set. In modern with Intruder Alarm, especially so.
Overall, I am excited mostly by these things:
- Shocklands, woo hoo!
- Have you seen the new basics with the guild symbols in the textbox? If they are not foil, I want a million of each.
- Surveil/Jump Start Bolas control is something I am now excited to do.
September 3, 2018 3:55 a.m.
On another note, when do official, non-PAX spoilers start?
September 3, 2018 10:33 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #49
Boza - Usually official spoilers start 3 weeks before the pre-release week so next Monday I believe.
Also, I disagree on your assessment of that goblin. Sure Goblin Rabblemaster is better, but that card was absurdly powerful. However, it's a cheap "lord", it can quickly grow your board, and it is ridiculous in multiples. I suspect Legion Warboss will be a menace in Standard.
September 3, 2018 1:23 p.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #50
I'm hyped to see what this set brings to Pauper! More Goblins ftw!!
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #1
Sarkhan420 You are correct about the ally fetches, but not the enemy fetches, which is my point. Sorry I was writing quickly and not really proofreading. Regardless, I'd like to see shocks come back, but I don't have faith Wizards will give us a third reprint. I think we will see a different rare land cycle.
jchudz I agree that Mentor seems kinda bland. It's a worse Bolster. I think it would've been cool and out of the box if they made it some sort of card advantage engine upon attack. It would still play to Boro's theme, but actually give R/W something it needs (maybe that is just the commander player in me speaking though). I am super excited about the potential combos of the other mechanics. Sultai might be a real thing.
August 31, 2018 8:37 a.m.