Frontier Format
General forum
Posted on Sept. 27, 2016, 9:48 a.m. by wonder_llama
So, it looks like a new format named Frontier is trying to break out. Here's a link to reddit for more information about it: reddit link
I'm curious on what people think about it. As a player that started playing magic around the release of Theros, I think it's awesome! Modern is just more expensive than I am willing to pay, and it seems that many modern players are unhappy with the format anyway.
What are your thoughts on Frontier? Pros/cons?
OmegaAura113 says... #3
Seems cool, but as of right now may end up along the lines of "historical standard," except not enough sets thus far for even that much diversity
September 27, 2016 9:56 a.m.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #4
I can't decipher what it is, a slowly rotating modern?
September 27, 2016 9:57 a.m.
wonder_llama says... #5
It'll start at M15 and move forward... so a super standard at first. But as the card pool grows, it'll develop its own meta game. It's a great way to use our beloved Siege Rhinos
September 27, 2016 10:10 a.m.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #6
Seems... interesting? I don't like how it will have half of the shocks (Kaladesh) and half of the fetches (Khans). and the fetches specifically are a HUGE reason Modern is expensive.
September 27, 2016 10:14 a.m.
wonder_llama says... #7
Simon_Williamson, yeah it will have strange mana, perhaps the kaladesh fast lands will help.
September 27, 2016 10:31 a.m.
So... it's extended?
Oh nevermind it's just post modern.
Pointless concept. Will end up just the same as modern.
September 27, 2016 10:37 a.m. Edited.
wonder_llama says... #10
Epochalyptik, there have been rumblings of a "new modern" format for a while, and it looks like some stores (Hareruya and another lgs) in Japan are starting it. I'm in the US, so I can't join them, but i would like to see my lgs start something like this to help it gain support.
September 27, 2016 11:16 a.m.
And wizards have talked about it too but this is absurd.
You don't fix a problem by copying the exact conditions that gave rise to it in the first place. It'll inflate prices just as much and cause just as much angst.
My biggest problem with all of these post modern formats as well is: look at the card selection. Youve just created a purely creature bound format.
No path.
No bolt.
No mana leak.
No decay.
There's not one high tempo removal option that's viable against fast aggro decks from thise sets onwards. However there's ample creature support. So you already have a warped meta from day 1.
The other thing that people never talk about is simply that modern really isn't that expensive. If you have a job you can buy a tarmogoyf a day, no problem. If youre in education it might be a struggle but within the realms of the real world it isn't that bad. Maybe some perspective is needed.
But no overall this is terrible. Recreating modern won't fix modern.
September 27, 2016 12:04 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #12
So the answer is yes, this is a homegrown format. It's not WOTC's project.
September 27, 2016 12:18 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #13
This thread was moved to a more appropriate forum (auto-generated comment)
September 27, 2016 12:20 p.m.
Are Treasure Cruise/Dig Through Time legal in this?
September 27, 2016 12:29 p.m.
iBleedPunk says... #15
Simon_Williamson there where no Shocklands in Kaladesh. Those were "Fastlands" or whatever the kids are calling them these days.
On the note of "Frontier" I won't hold my breath. It will fail and if it doesn't I still highly doubt I'll play solely on the fact I play EDH almost exclusively save for Legacy matches
September 27, 2016 1:42 p.m.
wonder_llama says... #16
Looks like there is no ban list, yet. Cruise and dig all you want.
September 27, 2016 1:48 p.m.
So let me get this straight, "Frontier", is a collection of:
- Magic 2015
- Khans of Tarkir
- Fate Reforged
- Dragons of Tarkir
- Magic Origins
- Battle for Zendikar
- Oath of the Gatewatch
- Shadows over Innistrad
- Eldritch Moon
- Kaladesh
So basically, people just couldn't let go of Seige Rhino.dek or CoCo? :P
In terms of mana base, the allied colours would be far more powerful than the enemy colours. Allies have fetches and BfZlands, whilst Enemy have what? Painlands, manlands and fastlands?
ChiefBell already mentioned the lack of decent removal. There's what? Murderous Cut, Lightning Strike, Ultimate Price, Grasp of Darkness, Stoke the Flames, Valorous Stance, Reality Shift (???).
Counterspells are even more dire, as there are evem fewer options, the only ones even remotely usable being Stubborn Denial, Unsubstantiate, Revolutionary Rebuff, Negate, and Horribly Awry.
September 27, 2016 3:51 p.m.
wonder_llama says... #18
To play devil's advocate, modern is just a powered down, worse version of legacy... no Force of Will, no Counterspell, no Jace, the Mind Sculptor blah blah blah. Point being, just because something is relatively less powerful doesn't mean people do not want to play it. Established modern players may not like it, but newer players really seem to like the idea of Frontier.. it's cards they have, but don't get to use and it's cards they understand.
As the card pool grows, it will become more powerful and develop a metagame, which probably won't resemble standards past. Have you ever thought about Cryptolith Rite and Jeskai Ascendancy in the same deck?? Probably not, because it's not quite good enough for modern and wasn't standard legal at the same time, but may be awesome in a new format.
I'm sure there are a ton of powerful combos like this we haven't thought of yet. Just have to try it out before you shut it down.
September 27, 2016 4:30 p.m.
If you think that modern is a powered down version of legacy then you evidently don't understand either of those two formats.
The point here is that in all these formats there's a delicate balance between the power levels of the proactive decks and the power levels of the reactive decks. In this format the contention is that there would be no reactive decks. There is no reason to play a nonlinear deck im this format, and thats obviously a huge problem.
September 27, 2016 4:33 p.m.
wonder_llama says... #20
you're right, I don't know modern and didn't claim to. from my view point, modern just looks like a less powerful version of legacy, which is why a lot of people are knocking Frontier.
As for reactive decks, didn't esper dragons win a few tournaments?? That's a pretty reactive deck that was around during the same time.
September 27, 2016 4:48 p.m.
Basically this format collects together a lot of exceedingly good creatures and not a lot of very good spells. If you can address that problem then sure, it'll be a good format but until then it just simply won't work.
Yes there have been standard decks that were reactive. I remember RTR azorius control. BRUTAL deck. It does happen. But as you gather together more sets you need to look at the balance of power across all of them. KTK gave us some very powerful control spells, but those wither in relation to things like Siege Rhino and Reality Smasher that just single handedly win games (and have dominated formats too). So you're pitching very few examples of control against many, many, many examples of aggro.
September 27, 2016 5 p.m.
JaceArveduin says... #23
True, but I feel like Esper Dragons could do fine against them. They won't be playing turn 2 TKS or such like in Modern, and they'd have the tools to deal with the ramp style decks. Emrakul may be immune to instants, but it isn't immune to Foul-Tongue Invocation or just being straight up countered by Silumgar's Scorn or Disdainful Stroke. They also have a one-sided sweeper in Crux of Fate, though the weird thing about that is that it's also the only true black sweeper in the format.
As for my thoughts, I'm intrigued, but the lack of Theros kinda kills it for me. No Whip of Erebos, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, scry lands, Chromanticore or the gods (for all of your Soulflayer shenanigans), and no minotaurs, which makes me slightly extra sad. Oh, and no Thoughtseize or Anger of the Gods.
September 27, 2016 5:18 p.m.
wonder_llama says... #24
All good points ChiefBell. A format with this few cards will cause certain strategies to suffer. Hopefully that will be addressed as new cards come out.
September 27, 2016 5:25 p.m.
Yeah basically this. I'm not sure the variety of reactive stuff could cope with the variety of proactive stuff. Remember the tricky thing will be that forcing control to play Disdainful Stroke to deal with the high mana cost decks means it can't deal with the decks that plays 2 drops and 3 drops. Those control decks are under an awful lot of pressure to just deal with a lot of.... stuff.
September 27, 2016 5:30 p.m.
JaceArveduin says... #26
That's true, and thinking some more on it I'm inclined to agree that a more typical control deck just won't be able to exist without cards from Theros at the very least, and would need Return to Ravnica to truly be good. I do still think a Dragon Control deck would exist, but not having cards from the two previous sets would sting. Hero's Downfall will also be sorely missed.
September 27, 2016 6:27 p.m.
They should just bring back extended or something similar if their going to do this
September 27, 2016 6:42 p.m.
JaceArveduin says... #28
Well, Extended rotates, unless I'm mistaken, this wouldn't. They just set the cut-off late enough that it'll feel like extended until a year or two passes.
September 27, 2016 6:49 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #29
It's basically Moderner. It's not a new idea.
September 27, 2016 10:28 p.m.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #30
Christ this meta would have Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, Collected Company and Monastery Swiftspear. No. Also I like Lightning Bolt, I like Mana Leak, Condescend and Mana Tithe, M10 would still be to small of a card pool to be honest. I like modern because of the large card pool and at the moment a very generous meta. You can build so many budget archetypes and still do extremely well. Fetchlands are extremely useful as necessary in tournament play but at FNM, not at all necessary. The more formats are played the more certain cards good in all of them will be played, let's say no new players come from this format getting popular, then there will still be an increase in demand simply because of people who would play that AND frontier. It will drive up the price of standard, modern, and even pauper which gets new Commons with every set, many of which would likely see play in frontier. The sets from M15 onward weren't designed for a modern without many modern staples and an inevitably crazy ban list. This format will serve no one. Hopefully though, masterpieces will, although to a miniscule degree, lower the price of modern a bit, if over time they can fill the market with these cards, and even lower the price of the original by a dollar, that's a good thing.
September 27, 2016 10:47 p.m.
JaceArveduin says... #31
Nope, but it is being backed by a pair of super stores, which is why there's a bit of a buzz about it. The grand prize for the first one is ten boxes for a tournament with no entry fee.
Honestly, I'll have to stop playing ptcgo and derp around on untap/trice and brew up a few decks so I can get a better feel for it.
September 27, 2016 10:53 p.m.
Dredge4life says... #32
September 29, 2016 7:54 p.m.
JaceArveduin says... #33
I was quite fond that too, and that Strength from the Fallen deck Stephen Madden took to ProTour Dragons.
September 29, 2016 9:34 p.m.
wonder_llama, I'll go pull out the Treasure Cruise's!
So wait a second, Modern Masters sets aren't legal either? So now there is no chance of getting any useful reprints? I think this format will die like extended
October 7, 2016 1:19 p.m.
Atony1400 To be fair, the Masters sets would introduce powerful cards (like Tarmogoyf!!!) into this format and basically turn it into a worse version of Modern.
And if Eternal Masters was legal here... Well. I don't think I need to tell you how stupid it would be to put the likes of Force of Will, Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Mana Crypt in this particular format.
October 7, 2016 3:14 p.m.
From what I've read, there's no masters sets in this format, meaning it's basically impossible to stop aggro.
McKz says... #2
Itll eventually be modern, but new er
September 27, 2016 9:54 a.m.