Cards you would like to see in BNG
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 28, 2013, 6:35 a.m. by ShadowLand
I was sitting here thinking to myself, if I could think of 1 card that really would help stabilize the meta in my area, which is control huge. It would be a Cavern of Souls
type card, it would give the creature decks a real edge, and set the U/W and Esper decks back a bit.
Another card I would like to see, is a decent 2-drop double black creature. Or a 1-drop that does something nice in black. Any of blacks decent cards start at 3 CMC, at least if you are wanting to do a mid-range devotion angle anyways.
How about you? What would you like to see?
ShadowLand says... #3
I would like to see that too MonsterFinder221, but I don't think we will. Personally, no proof here, I think Devotion is going to be like the Undying mechanic in Innistrad, and it won't be in either of the next two sets. But once again, pure speculation, no proof
December 28, 2013 7:16 a.m.
Probably the Damnation rumor to be reality haha. Something to more easily deal with god cards. A green board wipe answer for the G/r devotion deck.
December 28, 2013 7:19 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
I say it everytime one of these threads shows up but I would love to see good nonbasic land hate to punish all these greedy mana bases. No, worse Manabarbs in the form of Burning Earth isn't good nonbasic hate. I'm talking more along the lines of Blood Moon , Dwarven Miner , Primal Order or Back to Basics . Hell I would settle for a cycle of well costed creatures with nonbasic landwalk.
December 28, 2013 7:29 a.m.
ShadowLand says... #6
phillthy_rich, I would love to see Damnation see print! All except that it gives Esper yet another boardwipe . . . which would suck, unless we get another card that makes their deck hard to play
December 28, 2013 7:31 a.m.
ShadowLand says... #7
@ Gidgetimer, that's actually one of my big predictions for this set, I feel an answer to Nykthos coming on strong.
December 28, 2013 7:32 a.m.
ShadowLand, right?!?! It'd be so sweet. You're right though; that is the negative aspect of that card being reprinted. I just want it so I can put it in my Dega deck lol. I think it would be relatively reasonable also so that non blue/white control or midrange decks would better fair against the rest of the super creature based decks.
December 28, 2013 7:36 a.m.
ShadowLand says... #9
Well if we got Cavern of Souls and Damnation , that would even things out for standard. Lol.
December 28, 2013 7:55 a.m.
I would totally be okay with this haha. I would still be okay with Cavern of Souls even if there was non basic land hate. I hate counterspells unless I'm the one playing them haha! Seriously though; a few utility lands would be good too. Like a tec edge or something of the like.
December 28, 2013 8:09 a.m.
Perhaps selfishly, I'd like there be a new legendary land that turns into a manland with stats equal to your devotion to a chosen color. Not because I really think that would be a good card or one the format needs, but because I came up with the idea and it'd tickle me to predict what R&D is shooting for.
December 28, 2013 9:48 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #12
Waiting on Waste Not. Doubt it'll be in BNG but would be nice.
December 28, 2013 9:48 a.m.
I'm looking for something to make monstrous playable. maybe something that reduces the cost of activated abilities.
December 28, 2013 10:24 a.m.
thetechzombie says... #14
I've only been playing for just over a year now, so my opinion is not a very expert one based in too much fact, but adding more good black cards like what you were talking about would be a horrible idea. As I see it, there are three top dog decks right now. Mono-blue, Mono-black, and Esper/UW control. So, if there were to add new cards, it would either be to bring hate cards into the format against these decks, or put other decks on the same power level as these. Adding a black board wipe like Damnation would be horrific and would make mono-black, without a doubt, the most powerful deck. Cavern of Souls would be a good card to add, as it would weaken control strategies and promote tribal decks like minotaurs which I am hoping to see in BNG. I also think a nonbasic land hate effect would be bad as well, as it would promote mono decks like the all powerful mono-blue which only run on average 5 nonbasics. All it does is just punish those who want to try new things to try and diversify the field. And for the love of god people, stop hating on green nykthos. As a player of G/r devotion, it is nothing to be too afraid of. It is extremely easy to deal with. It dies to Thoughtseize easily, spot removal, mono-blue, board wipes and nearly everything. It's just that when it works, it certainly works, and people are just focusing on the times it works more than when it doesnt. Due to this, I switched mine to a more G/R monster build that is not so combo heavy, but can still go off. I think that Mutavault is much more of a problem than nykthos, so if they are going to print a hate card, print one for muta. Pesonally, I would love to see a good three drop for green with 3 green mana. every other color has one. Specter for blue and black, and reckoner for red and white. It is only fair that green gets one now. You guys might hate it, but I want more green support because it is nowhere to be found in top tournaments. I also want some white devotion support. that would be nice too.
December 28, 2013 10:56 a.m.
thetechzombie - No, you're just wrong about that. Especially if the black card was made hard to play in Esper - such as a casting cost of BBB1 or something similar. In fact, black did have a board wipe, pre Theros, (Mutilate ) and it didn't see a ton of play outside of mono-black, which was fine. Also, having board clear doesn't make one deck super powerful, you just need to know how to play around it and avoid them (which is harder for newer players). There is no way that mono black is a game breaking deck, and there is no way that it will be with wraths. This is simply because it's a creature deck and so any wrath will hurt it's progress. The same is not true for esper control because it is (largely) a creture-less deck and so board clear poses no threat to it. All it would do is even up Mono Black versus Selesnya or Gruul or something. Which isn't awful because Witchstalker is a thing.
I think your opinions above are kind of crooked and, I imagine, shaped by inexperience. For example - Mono-U has since been dealt with and does not have the stranglehold on standard, like it did when Theros was first released. Specter is bad card - only used for devotion. It never saw play before the devotion mechanic was introduced. Mutavault is just fine, it's not OP or gamebreaking and many examples of lands like that have been printed before. It's not hard to remove and only becomes a 2/2.
I very much doubt that Damnation will be printed because wasn't it just a copy of Wrath of God for the planar chaos set? It's not a 'normal' card for black to have - it was a special card.
I also would like to see more love for green. I would love to see some kind of replacement for Strangleroot Geist . There are many green players who don't use ramp because the creatures are already very mana efficient. A 2-drop with haste or something special (unlike the god-awful Kalonian Tusker ) would be great.
December 28, 2013 11:12 a.m.
I would be an extremely happy guy if they reprinted a reusable Pit Fight effect like Ulvenwald Tracker . That card was a beast. Provided some sorely needed removal to green, that wasn't broken.
December 28, 2013 11:14 a.m.
thetechzombie says... #17
@Chief Bell- You are probably right that my opinions are based on inexperience, but I still think some of my opinions are valid. You are right that a black board wipe wont be back breaking, but you are wrong to compare it to mutilate. Mutilate was solely based on swamps and therefore was not much of a board wipe unless completely devoted to that route. Now, it might be just as powerful as a damnation. I see your point with the mono-black being a creature based deck and that damnation would hurt that, but you stated that it would even up the other matchups, which is EXACTLY what i don't think they should do. It's powerful enough as is, and if they added something to even up the bad matchups, then it would be bad. To me, is what makes a good metagame is a pokemon types starter system. deck 1 beats deck 2. 2 beats 3, and 3 beats 1. Having deck one now beat deck 2 and deck 3 to me is a bad thing. And what you said about mono-blue is completely wrong. Just go to the decklists for the past several SCG Opens. Mono-Blue is still top dog with some other decks trailing along. Mono-blue has not been wiped out in the slightest. And Specter is not a bad card. Many cards change power levels with rotations. Take desecration demon. It used to be a dollar rare and now it's a staple. why? because things like lingering souls and 2-for-1's rotated out. Same with specter. It is now widely considered as a good card because of devotion. It doesn't matter whether it was used in a past meta or not. I will agree with you though that Strangleroot Geist needs to be reprinted. Curving Experiment one into Geist into a good three drop like Boon Satyr would be nice.
December 28, 2013 12:38 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #19
@ChiefBell: Although Damnation was indeed a color-shifted Wrath of God , it is not unreasonable for black to have board wipes. Granted, most black board wipes come with some kind of downside (high CMC for hard wraths, lower CMC for soft wraths, etc.), but a Damnation reprint would play into WOTC's new habit of printing hard-to-find Modern and eternal cards in Standard sets.
@thetechzombie: Nightveil Specter isn't a great card. Its ability is really hit-or-miss. The two best things about it are the triple U/B hybrid mana cost (for devotion) and flying (for evasion). Sometimes you can rip a land or a removal spell with it, but the ability has a great chance to whiff.
December 28, 2013 12:53 p.m.
Desi demon and Specter only became good because of devotion. That doesn't make them good cards, what it does mean is that they have good synergy with existing decks. There's a difference. They're bad cards on their own but become greater than the sum of their parts when they have the right slot. Theros provided those slots.
That's absolute rubbish about mono blue devotion. I literally just checked the latest SCG open. Top 10 - there's 4 mono blue devotion, one mono black, one RW devotion, one control, 2 aggro and one midrange deck. That looks like a healthy meta because whilst mono-blue devotion is certainly the most popular deck, it is being beaten to the top spots by a variety of other decks. I would say it's unhealthy if the top 10 were all mono-blue or (for example) mono-black - but they're not. They're mono blue and then a load of others that are all very different. If mono blue can be beaten by a large number of different decks then that doesn't really scream OP to me.
December 28, 2013 12:55 p.m.
Being an enchantment focused block, Academy Ruins for enchantments.
December 28, 2013 12:58 p.m.
DaggerV: Academy Ruins is for artifacts..although I wish they would print a new land for enchantments that does the same thing.
As for types of cards, I'd love to see more flavor in the form of minotaurs and gorgons and whatnot. They don't have to be all-stars, but enough to build a strong, casual, deck.
And as a primarily R/W player, I want the R/W mythic in BNG to be actually competitively practical and useful, above the usefulness of Underworld Cerberus , for example.
December 28, 2013 2:11 p.m.
Couple of things:
1: Desecration Demon has always been good in any midrange with black. If you saw that it was basically GG more times than not.
2: Devotion is a big mechanic right now that has completely changed the top tier decks. Until Theros would anyone have expected 5 out of the top 10 decks at a SCG open to be monocolored? No.
3: The card I want to see in BNG is a reprint of Serum Visions (because there is no way Preordain would be reprinted)
December 28, 2013 2:44 p.m.
ShadowLand says... #25
@ osang21, I feel you man. Most of red's mythics, with the exception of the recent Stormbreath Dragon are clunky and hard to play
with Damnation , its a brewers creampie, it won't go into a mono-black build, because they use devotion, and their whole deck shuts down without it. A W/B deck that ran whip and obzedat wouldn't care though.
I completely agree about the underpowered cards jumping 400% in price just because of devotion, I see devotion decks not lasting long past rotation. And the cards like Nightveil Specter and Underworld Connections and Desecration Demon are going to plummet. If we get spoiled cards that make mono-colors bad to play, get rid of those cards to get your value while you can
December 28, 2013 3:14 p.m.
Underworld connections isn't an awful card. It's playable.
December 28, 2013 3:16 p.m.
ShadowLand says... #27
Also, DaggerV, I think all Underworld Cerberus needs is one or two cards and he I'd going to see a deck for sure, him and Ashen Rider are begging for a deck
December 28, 2013 3:17 p.m.
ShadowLand says... #28
@ ChiefBell, its not awful at all, but as soon as it hit the mono black list it went from $0.50 to $3.00 overnight. I was merely stating if you want to make a profit on it, sell that sucker and wait for it to drop to pick it back up.
December 28, 2013 3:20 p.m.
Oh yes, I completely agree regarding price. I thought you were suggesting that it was also bad.
December 28, 2013 3:22 p.m.
I want a good hard counter counterspell playable in modern. I'd love to see Counterspell
December 28, 2013 3:22 p.m.
I don't think they'd introduce Counterspell at this point. I just think it's too different from existing cards. All the counters under 3 mana have some sort of drawback, at this point in time.
December 28, 2013 3:25 p.m.
10vernothin says... #32
2BBB boardwipe would be nice, or even 1BBB. Honestly we just need a non-white boardwipe that's not Anger of the Gods
more enchantment EXILE.
enchantment destruction/hate for red, blue and black.
December 28, 2013 3:33 p.m.
Enchantment destruction etc doesn't exist for red and probably never will. It doesn't fit in the colours. Same for black. Blue can just counter things and not care.
December 28, 2013 3:36 p.m.
ShadowLand says... #34
Yeah, unfortunately Counterspell would break the meta for esper and mb, I very seriousy doubt we will see any powerful counter, but hey, everyone can dream their own dreams. Lol.
Also, I agree with Chief, if you want enchantment exile, you're going to have to play W/U or just W, it's not really anyone else's end game
December 28, 2013 3:42 p.m.
Epochalyptik and DaggerV: I apologize for the misunderstanding, I immediately realized what you meant after I posted my comment.
Back to the cards though; a triple B Damnation -esque card wouldn't be too much. Heck, the card itself is fine. My guess is that once RTR rotates and Black gets Damnation , Black would be strong like how U/W is in RTR.
December 28, 2013 4:04 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #36
Think also about the impact these cards have beyond Standard. They won't print Counterspell because it doesn't fit their current design ethic (counterspells have drawbacks of some kind, either in price or effect) and because it would make Counterspell Modern legal. Counterspell is too powerful for Modern.
December 28, 2013 4:07 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #37
Yea Desecration Demon is a horrible card on its own, hate to top deck one of those :/
December 28, 2013 5:17 p.m.
ShadowLand says... #38
I think instead of Damnation we will probably see like XBBB, all creatures get -x/-x until end of turn, powerful, but not completely unbalanced.
Also, I would like to see another couple decent "returned" or zombie cards. That would be fun. Zombie tribal again.
December 28, 2013 5:32 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #39
If Damnation doesn't get the reprint, I'd like to see two mass debuff/buff spells. All creatures get -X/-X or all creatures you control get +X/+X, where X is your devotion to a black or white, respectively.
December 28, 2013 5:52 p.m.
ShadowLand says... #40
Ohhh, man that would make one nasty dual card Epochalyptik, it would go straight into my Orzhov deck.
I wonder with the demi-gods being dual colored if we will get more dual cards like we saw in DGM? Would allow them to get more functionality out of the 165 cards. I doubt it, but I could see a set of 6 being possible
December 28, 2013 5:59 p.m.
10vernothin says... #41
UUUUU - instant, scry x, then draw x cards, where x is your devotion to blue.
BBBBB - sorcery, put X -1/-1 counters on each creature, where x is your devotion to black
GGGGG - instant, put x counters on each creature you control, where x is your devotion to green, then untap them.
WWWWW - instant, put x 1/1 white soldiers onto the battlefield, where x is twice your devotion to white.
RRRRR - sorcery, deals x damage to each opponent and each creature you don't control, where x is your devotion to red.
December 28, 2013 6:12 p.m.
yes! and this card will fit in very nicely Progenitus
December 28, 2013 8:03 p.m.
beakedbard says... #45
I'd like to see some form of Devotion related draw cards or just more draw cards that are good and in colors other than Azorius. Also now Kiora has been spoiled and wizards most likely won't print another planeswalker in those colors in this set my hopes for a R/B planeswalker have gone up.
December 28, 2013 9:18 p.m.
ShadowLand says... #46
@ beakedbard - if we got a R/B or even a B planeswalker who interacted with Underworld Cerberus , I sense a very strong R/B deck coming into play. I figure that or the R/B demi-god will interact with it.
December 28, 2013 9:43 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #47
December 28, 2013 10:35 p.m.
eeehhhh idk about Desecration Demon being a bad card without devotion. i was using it before theros came out, and it sucked when there was a lot of token making going on, but if i was up against a deck that didn't spit out tokens like it was going out of style, it worked great.
December 28, 2013 10:50 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #49
I know we aren't going to get a reprint of Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile but I would like an instant speed exile target creature permanently with a similar draw back for 2W or 1WW. (also I would like it at uncommon but Wizards would probably not like unrestricted exile at uncommon.)
December 29, 2013 12:04 a.m.
I would also like a beefier Tithe Drinker . should be interesting :)
MonsterFinder221 says... #2
More Devotion
December 28, 2013 7:10 a.m.