Need an admin
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Posted on March 31, 2015, 12:57 p.m. by IndepenentMeta
So for the past few months I've been having a lot of troll problems. And trust me it has gotten annoying. The thing is some of us wanna talk bout the topics I post up, and then we have the usual troll users who just get on my threads to post little pictures talk trash and recently even try to insult some of the other users. It is very rude behavior, and I was wondering if from here on I can get an admin to follow my posts. And maybe issue out temp bans for those users who refuse to follow the rules. I honestly don't know what I did to you people but there's nothing I want more than to have good conversations with those willing to talk magic. Thank you in advance
IndepenentMeta says... #3
Lol it's not hard on me it's just annoying vampirelazarus. Usually we can bust out some real conversions but In between those conversions comes along the guy that has nothing better to do with his day then to talk trash it's annoying, I've verbally told them do not start trolling where they ignore my warning and keep on doing what they do. This is why I'm resorting to an admin. hopefully they can he me out.
March 31, 2015 1:04 p.m.
I posted in a thread you made yesterday, "How badass is dragonlord ojutai". Your thread submission was literally, "I was playing some mock boards with it and I really like the way it plays out" - how in any way does this prompt discussion? As people start to post you made some pretty... silly statements, like confusing Hexproof with Shroud, and positing board states based on goldfished hands.
If you want to have a serious, in-depth conversation then I think it would be helpful to begin the thread with a serious, in-depth post. Prompts like "How badass is dragonlord ojutai" with nothing of substance posted makes people think that you are the troll.
March 31, 2015 1:06 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
Pro tip: Don't suggest actions to authority figures when requesting help. I know your intention is to find a solution to your problem, but it comes across the wrong way. We will determine what actions are necessary under what circumstances, and we will do that independently of input from any party.
I'll write a more detailed post a little later to address your concern.
March 31, 2015 1:08 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
Also, to everyone else: If you're going to post in this thread, you better be productive. Don't incite anything, and don't complain.
March 31, 2015 1:10 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #9
Even in goldfish hands that's how it's gonna play out don't think that just because your playing goldfish hands means the actual game will change just because it's another person in charge. The strat for dragonlord ojuti is simple keep it u tapped so nothing can target it. Then wen you have answers like a stroke or a dissolve attack. Some guy said it dies to stoke the flames. That's fine due to the fact that you might have an answer for it anyways. Ojutais command, dissolve, and even disdainful stroke gets to negate that. It's not entirely different if I play ojutai dragon lord I'm going to go in with the same game plan as before. I've even played a few goldfish hands that helped me understand how the match up would play out. But idk like even thou I posted all of this data it's not going to amount to anything if someone just happens to step into my thread and say the magic words
"he's trolling" "he needs to practice his grammar cause that's what we get on interenet forums for" or my personal favorite "I'm getting a headache from just reading this" then everything I said that could be potential useful to other players gets ruined because they re too busy fighting with other people in an amtemp to restore some order. It's very faustarding. Can you guys understand that?
March 31, 2015 1:15 p.m.
We understand your concerns, but equally your standard of English does make it somewhat difficult to get to grips with what you're saying.
One of the problems other users have (and probably why they accuse you of trolling) is because you normally post responses with poor to no reasoning. Saying WHY you think something produces better outcomes than just making a point and not backing it up.
March 31, 2015 1:19 p.m.
I was the one who said it dies to Stoke, but that's neither here nor there. Goldfish hands are very different from a real game when you're interacting with your opponent and vice versa. When you goldfish, you're playing in a vacuum where you don't have anything impacting your board. I goldfish new decks a ton as I'm brewing, but whenever I want to have a conversation about how the deck runs I try to build it first and play some actual games. If you're trying to have a real detailed and in-depth conversation you need to have this sort of experience with the deck/cards. Else it's all speculation and "what if" type scenarios.
March 31, 2015 1:22 p.m.
I have to agree that there has been quite alot of unnecessary and/or rude banter going on here lately. In my own past there were even something that could be called bullying but luckily that is in the past.
That said, I also think that not all things should be taken so seriously. Forum would certainly dry out really fast if all we do would be serious discussions about the game. Like with almost everything: we should find the golden mean and I think we ar epretty close to that already. It is obvious that posts that are attacks towards certain users shouldn't be allowed. I would even try to tone the trolling down for little but that's about it.
And the most important thing to think here is that the change should not happen in those who are in charge but in the regular active users themselves. Of course, admins can steer the boat (and they are doing so already) but us, the users should do the actual job.
March 31, 2015 1:23 p.m.
slovakattack says... #13
Honestly? You lose your right to complain about a user's threads the second you post in one. Don't like what IndependantMeta has to say? Don't post in a thread he makes.
None of you are going to get any sympathy from me in regards to IM, at this point. There's no excuse for harassing a person.
March 31, 2015 1:23 p.m.
I'm totally in agreement with the above from slovakattack. If you don't like what someone has to say - leave.
March 31, 2015 1:25 p.m.
That's not aimed at IndepenentMeta, that's aimed at those who would enter threads then complain or troll because they don't like the content.
March 31, 2015 1:27 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #16
From what I have seen though, and the reason that all of this has gone down the way it has, People aren't just coming in and being like "I recognise that username, and I hate that person. I'm here strictly to flame him." People are trying to offer serious help as they would for anyone who asks for it. In return, they are offered counterpoints with no backup, and just a stream of refutations that those that understand the game can't wrap their heads around. If this were just a case of people flaming for the sake of flaming, that's one thing, but a majority of the people guilty of consistently calling this person a troll have offered help and gotten it spat back in their faces. So in a sense, it's almost justifiable that IM has received the treatment that he has. Almost, as in I can see and understand the thought pattern behind it. Does that make it right that some people have gone overboard? No. Should we still try to fix what's happening in the community? Of course.
I'm not trying to point any fingers here, because I believe that I am in some degree guilty myself, but I recognise that something needs to be done to change public opinion, because things have gotten out of hand.
March 31, 2015 1:32 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #17
Just really try reading one of my posts and try to find out what I call useful information from it. Cause I think almost everything I say has reasoning behind it. With the exception of me talking trash to shew some other the trolls from the thread. Alot of the times you guys say oh this has no reasoning behind it. Like the time I was Tallinn bout pod. I posted up that it's just another generic summon, and pretty good way for stuff to hit the board, someone else agreed. And 90% of the thread was busy shouting your wrong, your stupid, your illierate, but that's fine because that what most of you consider to be reasoning. Then some outrageous numbers where thrown. And I mentioned the fact that UR delver was winning when pod got banned. No one heard that pr even gave me their out put on it. Then we got more of the same. So that basically sums up what's been hpening in my threads
March 31, 2015 1:37 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #18
Oh about flaming, IM isnt the one I flame for the sake of flaming.
In fact, Im an adult, so I don't even flame the one person I do want to flame.
March 31, 2015 1:37 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #19
It's mostly in the way that accusations were avoided that the consistency sprouts from. Like, if you look on a few of the threads that have come up recently, people directly as "Are you a troll?", which is responded to with a change of subject or otherwise avoidance of the question, leading the ones that ask the question to believe that they are correct. This is just from what i've seen though, and may not be the case for everyone.
March 31, 2015 1:39 p.m.
And again I'd say that I understand the frustration but as you mentioned that doesn't make retaliation justifiable.
If you offer advice and someone refuses it you move on. You don't then troll. Even if the individual refuses your advice in the most infuriating way possible, that doesn't then make it ok to start being a dick.
March 31, 2015 1:39 p.m.
I'm just here having a hard time comprehending why you have to click on a thread by a person you don't like, let alone read or comment on it.
The solution to dealing with people you can't stand is simple aversion. I don't like the guy myself and I don't think he thinks about his posts- that is little reason for me to harass him.
March 31, 2015 1:42 p.m.
IndepenentMeta - But there is certainly a case of people addressing your points, showing hard numbers that prove that you're wrong, and speaking from a lot of experience, and yet you still ignore it. It certainly is frustrating. In that Pod thread, for example, I explained precisely why you were misunderstanding the issue in clear terms multiple times. You chose to ignore me.
I'm not saying that it gives me the right, or someone else the right, to be rude to you. I understand that. But what YOU have to understand is that it certainly is annoying and it leads people to question whether you're actually being sincere.
March 31, 2015 1:43 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #23
But see that's the thing I wanna be able to talk through my conversions. Most of the time I have like 3-5 pages of "oh he most be a troll blah blah blah" then I have to look in between those comments to see if I can find a legit post bout the thread. That's the thing that most of y'all don't see. While people are making accusations that I'm a troll and all that their the ones going around and trolling my threads. Which makes me look bad because people believe what they say rather than listening to logic. That why I was telling you we get an admin to issue out temp bans these next few weeks that why people can know we're being serious when we wanna talk bout my thread topics. Should that sound reasonable?
March 31, 2015 1:47 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #24
ChiefBell I'm sorry man I understand your one of the good ones. But understand that if I'm trying to get a card off a banned list my job is to be on the opposing side of banning it. I really do believe pod got the banned hammer too quickly and too raw. But bullshit aside I'm prolly gonna have I wait a year or two for the unbanning of it. But trust me it's something I wanna play. After a while I just kinda quit on the thread because you guys were saying the same thing and I know I wasn't gonna win. So I moved on I haven't even checked if anyone else has posted anything else yet. I came to the conclussion of right now its too powerful but later on it might not be as good so maybe it will get off the list.
March 31, 2015 1:52 p.m.
Well I would certainly prefer it if the personal attacks were left out. However, that said, do you understand your part in this IndepenentMeta and how we can move forward in a healthy way?
I can also assure you that admins are going to be vigilant and watch for anything that seems over the top in terms of trolling or shitposting. However, that does not mean that any action is going to be taken immediately or necessarily ever unless circumstances deem that its warranted.
We draw a line and push forward.
March 31, 2015 1:53 p.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #28
Oh, and let's not tag this guy in threads he wasn't already a part of just to try to incite something.
March 31, 2015 2:12 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #29
I just wanted to mention a couple things that you might be able to do to help your posts be more clear and therefore dodging some of the people who don't understand your threads.
First off, try running a spellchecker on your posts. I have a spellchecker built into my Firefox, and it is great to ensure that I am using clear and consistent English. This would help some of your posts to be a little more clear.
Secondly, try linking the cards that you are talking about. You can do this by putting the cards in square brackets, simply [ [ insert card name here ] ] without the spaces. This can let us see exactly what you are talking about.
Thirdly, try explaining your points. To take your previous thread of Dragonlord Ojutai, you simply said he was awesome. However, if you included the fact that he is awesome because he can fly, has hexproof when he comes into play so you can leave him protected until you have counterspells ready, and he has a repeatable Anticipate attached onto him. This gives clear points as to why he is good, and people can then work to agree or disagree with certain points. It can help.
Finally, if you don't really like the way that people are treating you, simply ignore them. People flaming back and forth just leads to more issues, and it's better when we can have some civil discussion without all the typical awfulness that some other forums have. This goes for everyone, including people who enter the threads to flame. If you can't do that, then take my advice.
TL;DR - Remember to be civil, explain everything you say, and spell everything nicely. We want to know what you know, and we want to say our thoughts on what you know.
P.S. Woah, I typed waaaaay too much there.
March 31, 2015 2:53 p.m.
quesobueno123 says... #30
This is of course partially about me, and that is my fault. I will post why I acted as so.
Here are my issues with Meta's behavior. Firstly, he constantly disagrees with respected users who have been playing for much longer than him. His grammar also makes it very difficult to understand anything he says. My third issue is that he is unable to take sound advice. To expand on the first point, a majority of his threads he asks about certain cards, and after not getting his wanted answer he argues. He does this by constantly repeating the same points, to try and prove his point. In addition, he does this by claiming to have some sort of connection to wizards, such as saying that Gifts Ungiven was once a sorcery, before it was printed. Of course he says this after being proven wrong, and provided with evidence that it was an instant. On another thread, he full out claimed that wizards stole his card designs, right out of his notebook. When confronted about how crazy this sounded, he got extremely defensive and gave more examples of cards that were stolen from him. Secondly, his grammar is extremely flawed. I have nothing against bad grammar, until it gets to a point where other users have to read your posts 3-4 times to even get an idea of what you are talking about. There is a reason for the preview post box before posting. Perhaps he should try writing his posts on word, or google docs, so they are spell and grammar checked, then copy and pasting them over to tappedout. Finally, I used to try to contribute and help Meta but he would refuse to listen to me, despite me suggesting very good cards, and referencing him to mtgtop8 to show him that it was not only me who thought that the cards were good. Yesterday, I snapped on him, and gave up. I do agree that this was immature, and that there were infinitely better ways to address the issue. So that is my fault.
I am dearly sorry for my actions, and they were very inmature. I just snapped. I hope that this helps you to understand why me and other users may have gotten annoyed with you.
March 31, 2015 3:17 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #31
It's my touch pad it miss spells things right after I finish typing idk why it does that. The autocorrect is abit off like sometimes I just finish writing and the autocorrect switches a few words, it's even happen to he point where I to back and proof Read and correct and then it still comes out wrong anyways... It's extremely annoying too. But anyways that's still. Very rude way to address a matter. It's like everyone's been telling u if u dont like what u see don't post... I'm sure there's people that understand what I am talking bout even if my iPad fucks up the whole sentence...
March 31, 2015 3:37 p.m.
quesobueno123 says... #32
One more thing, making a thread about this is not the way to go. If you simply contact epoch of chiefbell, it avoids all of this and keeps it quiet.
March 31, 2015 3:40 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #34
But seriously if u have a problem with all of that don't talk to mr its quite simple. A lot of the cards I ask about are viable to the meta their just underused and I remember someone down the line said if u wanna find some new stuff actually look. And to mr that's kinda like ok that's what I'm doing I'm posting up every card i think might have a chance at the format but what good is that if it gets shut down every single time. I feel as if thou we could communicate a little better if you guys actually test out the cards before you make decisions with out actually ever playing the card. I had one earlier where a friend of mine didnt know Nemesis of Mortals until he actually went and LOOKED INTO what I was doing with it. That's my problem..
March 31, 2015 3:46 p.m.
quesobueno123 says... #35
I have looked at what you are doing with it. It is simply not good in modern. I tried it once, it doesn't work.
March 31, 2015 3:49 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #36
Oh I'm talking bout my standard deck. I also wanna try out nemesis in modern thou with Vengevine it becomes a 2 drop the u can cast Gravecrawler then Vengevine gets its trigger. If it doesn't work that's fine but I wanna see things for myself.
March 31, 2015 3:57 p.m.
quesobueno123 says... #38
Also, I have believed that you were a troll yourself until about 3 days ago. I will try to help you in future posts, however.
March 31, 2015 4:05 p.m.
Independent, I truly believed that you were a troll until this post. I understand your frustrations with us, but please try to see where we are coming from as well. You rebuff solid advice, refuse to listen to anyone, and make utterly absurd claims. It is for these reasons that I, and much of the community have mistaken you for a troll. Why don't we take this as a learning opportunity for both sides to reflect on? As a community, we can try to be more supportive and try to understand what you're saying, as well as continue to give advice whenever you ask for it. In return, you can learn from the advice we give you and in time become a solid member of the community here on tappedout. What do you say?
March 31, 2015 4:47 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #41
It's Kool but don't be so quick as to dismiss ideas you never know what your missing out on. Me personally I always do my research and if you notice all the cards I've named were usually at one time tier one staples. I don't go suggesting real crappy stuff from older sets and try to say its good. Because I kno what can impact a game. My thing is to try something different every time. That why when you get introduced to knew threats or you have new answers u can say oh yeah independent meta was talking bout this. And if you hear a bad response from me it's cause I'm hearing all bad responses which I do apologize for. But here let me make a quick list at the stuff I suggested so far so u guys can have an overview On what I'm talking bout
March 31, 2015 5:05 p.m.
I thought you were a troll. Ever since you claimed that Wizards stole your card designs, I thought you were a troll. I actually think I called you a Troll yesterday...
When I see a tread that is "a troll tread" (bad grammar, irrelevant subject, bad reasoning), I become mad. I waste my time reading those threads.
I don't think there is something wrong with the way the community reacts. No one have talked trash about me for example. There is a reason to, why you get hate. If you began to make better threads, then it would solve the problem of people hating you.
March 31, 2015 5:12 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #43
I don't care bout who hates me and who doesn't it's pretty clear to me who actually wants to learn or listen and who's just there to get "mad" bout something as dumb as grammar... It's not making you smarter pointing out misspelled words and run on sentences so why waste your time? Why get bothered by such a minor thing and go off and try to ruin the conversion for everyone. One thing I usually read a lot is "it's so hard to have a conversion with you cause of your grammar" it's even harder to have a decent conversion when people just come on to a thread just to spam the hell out of it. The reason there's a troll rule is to stop you guys from trolling but that doesn't seem to stop anyone from posting stupid off topic things on my page. Anyways if my logic sounds a little fishy to you don't try it. But Ill tell you something I had a friend in RL that used to say the same things In yugioh "oh that will never work" and you know what I did. I invested some money in the cards I was talking about and showed him they can do something. Pretty soon my other peers told me that he wouldn't go to a tourney unless he saw me pull off some unique/weird tech. So as you can tell I have plenty of experience hearing these kinds of things. And going by it as a routine. All I'm really asking for is for you guys to turn the bullshit down a bit so we can talk bout the subject in a good matter.
March 31, 2015 5:22 p.m.
Ok, but a lot of what you just said is why many of get crass with you. Take this next part as something to learn from, and why we get annoyed at you. Your friend is not us. Anything that happens with you and your friends regarding yugioh is utterly irrelevant. I, and many others, I imagine, would appreciate it if you left yugioh out of the discussion. To us, you are the one spouting bullshit. Do you see where I'm coming from? This has to be a 2 way street:You have to learn our frustrations as well.
March 31, 2015 5:27 p.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #45
IndepenentMeta I have read the various threads that you have created over the past few weeks. Personally, I have refrained from participating because I have always interpreted the bad grammar as well as argumentative and close-minded nature of your posts to be signature hallmarks of your typical troll. I don't feed the trolls.
You seem to think you are some visionary, but perhaps you might internalize the various counterpoints and feedback you have received from the community on this site rather than continuing to delude yourself into being a legend in your own mind.
It seems you want to contribute to the conversation. That's fine, and I think a worthy goal. With that said, if you are going to be taken seriously you need to first be humble enough to understand your own shortcomings, and understand that there are MANY people on this site with FAR more knowledge and understanding about the game and in particular the format of Modern than you do. Secondly, take the time to learn how to communicate effectively. Your ability to participate in a conversation on a forum depends on your ability to express yourself clearly in writing. You have a lot of work in that regard to say the least.
Some advice: Be humble. Stop being a legend in your own mind. Internalize the benefit of the experience and knowledge that this community has to offer. Learn how to write in a manner that actually allows you to be able to convey what you are trying to say to others clearly and cogently.
Just my two cents.
March 31, 2015 5:30 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #46
xzzane lol well that's your problem I can't change that mentally man I tried. But since you get so bothered by my grammar and seeing as if thou my grammar will never get better ignore me don't talk to me go off and talk shit to a real bad player. Me personally I've made top tables at locals ever since I started playing magic. So for me I know I'm pretty good at this game. So run along kid.... Ill be fine without you
March 31, 2015 5:47 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #47
I know you like a very well good number see me as a troll but the day you can change your opinion about me is the day you start being more well with me. I'm not trolling all the cards ive posted up are cards I think can makes difference in the current meta. Even right now I have a new tech I wanna try out. I wanna see how it will play out this weekend but since. But since it aint written by patrick Chapin or brad Nelson. Every body is gonna say "troll!!! Troll!!!" And it when I beat them they wont say nothing all part of the never ending routine I was telling you about UrbanAnathema
March 31, 2015 5:59 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #48
xzzane was not being rude or disrespectful IndepenentMeta. He was trying to point out something that you can work on to improve relations with the Community as a whole. There must be some form of compromise. There must be. Otherwise this will be a vicious circle that ends when one side has pushed too far. Right now there is discourse, which is good. You have said your side and now you are receiving feedback from various users. Take what is being said to heart, please.
March 31, 2015 6:05 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #49
" To us, you are the one spouting bullshit. Do you see where I'm coming from? This has to be a 2 way street:You have to learn our frustrations as well."
CanadianShinobi your right thats totally polite.... I never knew a person that would get insulted by someone else saying "to us you ate the one spouting bullshit". Honestly man that's enabling them to be jack offs, all they want as long as they say "we didn't come here to insult you, just educated" and everything is ok. Lol naw man just tell em to stay away.
March 31, 2015 6:11 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #50
He did not insult you. He made a statement about how certain members of the Community view something. That you take it as insulting is not his fault. Could he have phrased it better? I think so. But he made an excellent point, this is a two way street. There must be give and take on both sides. Again, I implore you to take some of this to heart and to reflect upon it. I know that I am personally doing so.
vampirelazarus says... #2
I agree that people have been a little hard on you. We did have a good discussion, the one time we talked though. It was about Splinter Twin, if I recall correctly.
yeaGO, Epochalyptik.
March 31, 2015 1 p.m.