What You'd Like To See
Modern forum
Posted on Dec. 30, 2016, 10:19 p.m. by Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully
What card would you like to see in modern, does that card exist?
For one that exists, I feel that Price of Progress could do major work in nerfing so many decks that rely on non-basics.
As for one that doesn't exist yet, an instant speed Vapor Snag with a large downside.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #3
Scouty Creatures =/= Permanents
December 30, 2016 10:33 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #5
So play Boomerang. Instant speed, hits all permanents, no downside.
December 30, 2016 11:25 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #6
re-read what you wrote there sport.
"...one that doesn't exist yet, an instant speed Vapor Snag with a large downside."
Coincidentally, vapor snag as it exists is an instant with marginal downside. Or upside depending on the target.
I can get behind price of progress or Back to Basics getting a standard print I feel like both modern and frontier could use a bit more multi-color hosing. Frontier especially.
Something that doesn't exist but is within reason, I'd want Trading Post but good. Something where all of the abilities aren't conditional, and after cycling through them all you get more upside than just 3 life and a card. Still having the sort of "equivalent exchange-esque" feel to it though. Basically an artifact "planeswalker" that isn't terrible.
December 30, 2016 11:27 p.m.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #7
Fuck! I meant the M15 card! Whatsits name?!
December 30, 2016 11:32 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #8
Yeah, basically this but an instant + "You lose three life" or "...and a permanent you control" would be sweet as well. Or like a choice where it costs 2 if you don't bounce a permanent you control as well or something.
December 30, 2016 11:39 p.m.
If price of progress was legal I would quit modern forever, you just cant have that card in a format where og duals just arent an option because its impossible to play a three color deck with a lot of basics and it would just devolve modern into a different form of standard. Dont get me wrong I love standard but thats just not what modern is supposed to be.
December 31, 2016 5:37 a.m.
mathimus55 says... #10
Yea, Like what EmblemMan said about Price of Progress. It squarely turns burn into the tier 0 deck of the format because everyone is trying to actually cast their spells, most times requiring 6-8 damage from shocks. Price is one of the only reasons burn is remotely viable in legacy amongst all the other combo decks because it can hit for 6-10 depending on the matchup. Against slower combo decks like Alluren or midrange like Death and Taxes & Eldrazi a well timed Price will just win you the game. Even as a Merfolk player in modern I don't want to see Price at all and I largely escape that card.
December 31, 2016 8:01 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #11
To be fair standard doesn't have anything that punishes people for greedy mana bases. You can run a 4c mana base without too much trouble from your opponents.
Modern on the other hand already has blood moon. If WOTC caves to the more casual modern crowd and bans blood moon then price of progress can easily become the "you're greedy son" in modern.
I mean, there's always the "well don't be greedy then?" argument
December 31, 2016 8:03 a.m. Edited.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #12
I want to see Counterspell in modern.
December 31, 2016 9:26 a.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #13
Price of Progress would be amazing for the format. Burn is a T2 deck as of now bc they almost always auto-lose against dredge (Gnaw to the Bone). This also forces every single deck in modern to rethink their manabase. There wouldn't have to be a Become Immense banning bc Infect and Deaths Shadow would just scoop to that card, blue would become better bc it can counter Price, and good non-combo two color decks would be good. That would be the best thing imaginable: A Tier One Fair 2 color deck.
I don't think Counterspell is that good for the format just because it doesn't solve any problems, good Trading Post would be sweeeeet, and for myself, I'd like to see Opt, 2 mana Brainstorm, Strix, Leovold, banning of Mox Opal and unbanning of Artifact lands, Stoneforge Mystic, and Green Sun's Zenith. Oh, and the de facto red 2 drop creature to complete the cycle of overpowered 2 drop creatures in each color. Maybe Lightning Bolt on a stick.
December 31, 2016 4:27 p.m.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #15
SwaggyMcSwagglepants Young Pyromancer is like Monastery Mentor, the more kickass spells your format has (Brainstorm), the better it is.
I find the broken/powerful 2 drop creature cycle ridiculous, I mean, Phantasmal Image and Lord of Atlantis both are very powerful 2 drop creatures, maybe not a Snapcaster Mage but they're great. I'm still amazed that Goblin Piledriver is in modern now and how it hasn't made goblins a thing.
December 31, 2016 4:46 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #16
I'm so glad neither of you are in charge of the format.
December 31, 2016 5:26 p.m.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #17
mathimus55 Me and SwaggyMcSwagglepants?
December 31, 2016 5:58 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #18
Man I just said what Id like to see. Realistically, I'd throw in Opt and ban Become Immense and Mox Opal. Although I don't think Price of Progress would hurt the format in a real way.
December 31, 2016 6 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #19
I think Price AND Moon is a bit much but like I said, if they cave to the complaining about Moon Price would fill the role.
December 31, 2016 6:19 p.m. Edited.
mathimus55 says... #20
Yes. Why would you want Opt when you have Sleight of Hand already? Price of Progress would very much be a dangerous card, not in a good way either. And your statement on the powerful 2 drops in the format was just inaccurate on several levels. I play merfolk in modern, and merfolk is just not good right now. Snapcaster Mage is worlds better than any merfolk lord.
Price of Progress should NOT be in the modern format. If you think decks aren't already building mana bases to account for Blood Moon then you either A: don't actually play the format or B: greatly misunderstand the format when played at a high level.
December 31, 2016 6:28 p.m.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #22
mathimus55 On the two drops I was simply stating that I always hated the dubbed "powerful two drop cycle".
Secondly, decks may account for blood moon, but I am saying that blood moon is not enough. There are simply too many three colour decks, not decks with splashed buy devoted three colour. Modern is simply too expensive, and decks are becoming more and more degenerate. I also love the "if you have a different opinion than me you either don't play Modern or you knoe nothing."
December 31, 2016 6:37 p.m.
With all due respect, the ban list is not the tool to be used to address the price barrier issue. Prices go up with demand, and down with availability, just print more cards. Make modern masters a yearly, full run print including the fetches and the problem is solved. The collector's market share of the game, in my humble opinion, is not remotely as important as those who actually and actively play the game. Remember, all those bastards who bought out low print cards just to spike the price and sell for profit are considered 'collectors' as far as WotC is concerned.
I also don't consider good mana fixing and degeneration to be inherently connected, and is one of the biggest reason people are attracted to non rotating formats. The other reason is being able to play with their pet cards after standard is done with them. As such, I am (for the most part) in favor of more unbans than bans. I read an article by Frank lepore recently advocating for throwing all of the commander sets into modern as well, which would give wotc a chance to introduce needed cards (force of will, hymn to tourach, etc) into the modern pool.
My personal vote, unban everything, add commander sets and duel deck sets, and see where the format shakes out for a season or two. Then reactively ban as needed, or better, add needed cards via MM or commander. But what do I know, I flip eggs for a living.
Sorry for the wall of text, and my lack of potato.
December 31, 2016 10:01 p.m.
Also, fun with auto correct: degeneration wanted really badly to become defecation. Thought I'd share that with you.
December 31, 2016 10:02 p.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #25
If WotC reprint Counterspell I'll counter all your salty comments!
First off, saying Counterspell doesn't answer anything is among the stupidest things I've heard about the format. It's quite rightly a 2 mana 'answer all' card and that's the actual reason it's not in modern atm. So we're left with sh*tty Mana Leak (useless after T5-6 mostly), Remand (not even a counter spell, just a tempo card that replaces itself) and other really narrow cards like Spell Snare or Spell Pierce. Blue needs a little bit more power in modern for it to become a thing.
Price of Progress in modern, as much as I love playing the card in Legacy being mostly a red mage, would be retarded af. Modern is filled with shocks and 2+ colored decks and they make the format so cool.
Blood Moon makes most of players rage already (I personally love the card for its unique and powerful effect) so if you add PoP you'll just kill the format and witness Burn vs Burn matchups all over :>
Also btw, PoP + moon don't interact very well since Moon denies PoP's power by making all nonbasics becoming basics... Just sayin' you want to either play one or the other, depending on your deck's main strategy (damage / resource denial).
January 2, 2017 6:11 a.m.
Gimme that Lantern of Insight 4-8.
On a more reasonable note, Preordain and Seething Song. Neither are too powerful anymore for the way Modern is now.
Burn is already tier 1, I don't see why we'd give them more stuff. Doesn't seem reasonable to me. Counterspell would help Delver I guess. People want it to help control but it just won't. I'd have no issues with it, but I also wouldn't really see the point.
January 2, 2017 7:15 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #27
BMoon doesn't make lands basics. It makes them just non-basic mountains
Oracle Ruling:
12/1/2004: Blood Moons effect doesnt affect supertypes and wont turn any land into a basic land.
January 2, 2017 7:51 a.m. Edited.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #28
Ohthenoises thanks for the input, it just sounded so obvious to me. Well no :)
awphutt I don't think Counterspell is overpowered when you see the kind of things certain decks can do. It's just a plain counter magic and I think it not having any restriction makes it a lil (just a little) bit too good unfortunately. It would replace Remand forever and could help UW Control much more than Delver imo.
An aggressive Delver build can close the game quite fastly, so Mana Leak usually do the job quite well. However, UW Control often go to T10 and more, so being able to simply stop your opponent from casting things by chaining Snapcaster Mages would be (too) wonderful :)
January 3, 2017 2:37 p.m.
I must not have phrased it right, It's not that counterspell is too good, it's just not going to do what people want it to. It'll help decks that are already good (Grixis Delver/Jeskai Nahiri), and stuff like UW control will remain as bad as they were.
January 4, 2017 8:31 p.m.
Logic Knot is basically Counterspell all the time, for draw go controll shells
January 5, 2017 8:02 p.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #31
Yeh except you usually can't cast more than 3 times Knot per game because between Snappies and Delve mechanic, your GY just goes empty af. Trust me I played Esper for a while and Logic Knot is far from being as good as Counterspell, even though I thought the same as you do when I started playing it.
Also, Snapcastering a Knot is really challenging.
Thing is UW(x) builds want to go as late as possibly possible. But the longer the game lasts the more likely your opponent is to draw lands. At some point, you either have to exile your whole GY or play Knot as a Sphinx's Revelation for it to be efficient. And that's not where you want to be. Once again, Counterspell just does the job with UU.
@awphutt I think we just have different PoV that won't change :) I truly think it'd help control builds. We see how good it is in legacy. It's not played a lot but when it is it simply works. If you don't think it would change the format, then I guess it wouldn't be a problem if it got reprinted.
Anyways I had my word here, I'm out :)
January 6, 2017 5:55 a.m.
I agree that Logic Knot in mutliples is terrible, however its is still a very good counterspell as a 2/3 of.
Yes it can involve huge graveyard exiles, but it helps that the control deck (thanks to having more lands) generally tend to have more lands in play than the opponent.
(Of course its still bad if the opponent can cast multiple cheap threats in the same turn - but modern is good because there are no universal "I WIN" answer cards.
Scouty says... #2
I'm vapor pretty sure snag is the instant speed vapor snag, bud
December 30, 2016 10:26 p.m.