Ugin, the Spirit Dragon in modern?
Modern forum
Posted on Jan. 18, 2015, 10 a.m. by PValBlanc
Am I the only one around who thinks Ugin will have a place in modern? I mean seriously, am I?
Epochalyptik if this belonged in the modern forum I apologise.
slovakattack says... #4
He may go into a Tron build, but the problem is that Karn is better, as he can be cast potentially on T2-3, as the 3 Tron lands combine to form 7 mana. Ugin cannot.
January 18, 2015 10:14 a.m.
I think Tron will experiment with him for a while before deciding they'd rather do anything else at 8 mana.
January 18, 2015 10:17 a.m.
Tron will experiment with him but he has big, big problems in that he can't be played on T3 like Karn can. Mono U tron can sometimes do it T3 if they have mana rocks but that's an added layer of complexity.
It is likely he will not make it into Tron.
January 18, 2015 10:19 a.m.
And you know, Oblivion Stone is probably more useful given that it's easier to play. You can either split the cost or do it all at once.
January 18, 2015 10:24 a.m.
That's the first place I saw him. I'll be dumping two into my mono U Tron deck and seeing how it goes. I've just been hearing a lot of Ugin hate floating around mostly regardong his casting cost being too high for modern. As a recent returning player I'm aware I'm not fully meta-aware yet but it seems to me there are plenty of decks out there that can easily cheat stuff out. Be it graveyard tricks or the like.
January 18, 2015 10:29 a.m.
There are virtually no graveyard decks in modern.......
Goryo's Vengeance does legendary creatures for a single turn. Only really works with Griselbrand and cards that grant more combat phases.
Through the Breach is only creatures.
Tron lands only generate 7 on T3. More by T4 but by this point it becomes a bit meh without significant control elements.
There really isn't a large place for him unless you feel like testing your luck with mono U tron.
January 18, 2015 10:35 a.m.
In regards to the Tron speculation I had the same thought for RG Tron. Karn is just better. But in Mono U Tron it doesn't matter that he won't come out T3 because you're not racing to assemble Tron as fast anyway. There's more tempo and flexibility to the play. Its just even more control for a control freak deck with the added gravy of an extra wincon.
January 18, 2015 10:35 a.m.
Chief, and that is where my limited experience with the modern meta comes in. If there are no graveyard decks or other cheat it out early style decks (many of which get banned anyways: e.g. Yawgmoth's Bargain) it kinda settles the issue.
January 18, 2015 10:41 a.m.
Closes thing is uh........ Summer Bloom? Those decks could use it. Maybe. For some lolz.
January 18, 2015 10:48 a.m.
scottemery says... #13
Mono Blue Tron will almost certainly not play Ugin. The bombs that the deck already plays are all tutorable using fabricate or treasure mage, this is huge for the deck. Aside from that it's instant board effect isn't on par with the other 7-8 mana bombs it could be playing.
January 18, 2015 10:51 a.m.
OH yeah! I forgot that Mono U can't even tutor him up. That is a big deal.
January 18, 2015 10:53 a.m.
That is the main concern I had. Hence why I'm running two rather than one. Definately going to try it anyhow. Lols are every bit as valuable to me as wins anyhow.
January 18, 2015 10:58 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #17
Format-specific discussions should go in the format forums. Moved.
January 18, 2015 11:21 a.m.
Yeah, sorry about that Epochalyptik, I wasn't sure given that the discussion also revolved around an unreleased card.
January 18, 2015 11:26 a.m.
Programmer_112 says... #20
Well, maybe with Talisman of Dominance he could be a thing? Idk. He seems good, but Karn is a freaking beast, so I don't think so
January 18, 2015 11:26 a.m.
That said, thanks for the insight people. I feel I'm understanding this better now.
January 18, 2015 11:30 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #22
I'm trying out four maindeck Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Not casting him on turn 3 is sometimes a problem, but postboard when you can board up to four Pyroclasm in addition to your Oblivion Stones I think it's completely fine to have at least two.
January 18, 2015 12:06 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #23
That said, it may turn out that there are other cards I should be playing instead. I feel like he makes a better immediate impact than Karn does, as completely wiping the board (and often ending up at more than 3 loyalty, which is relevant) and being able to Ghostfire further threats is very good.
January 18, 2015 12:07 p.m.
Noted for if I ever decide I want to run RG Tron. I do really enjoy the fact that boardwipes can happen while leaving your colourless creatures (which is everything but treasure mage in U Tron) alive.
January 18, 2015 12:12 p.m.
Although that also limits his value vs affinity and mirror matches. Urgh. Dilemmas...
January 18, 2015 12:17 p.m.
I have no idea why people would play Ugin, the Spirit Dragon over Karn Liberated
the only matchup i see ugin being better in is bogels
Ugin cant deal with man lands or most of affinities list. both of which you will see at a modern tournament. karn can deal with either of them no problem. tron already runs several board wipes so they need karn for the spot removal of indestructible or otherwise dodgy things. Plus karn tears into your hand keeping your opponent behind.
ultimate wise there is a small chance you have nothing with ugin to toss onto the field. With karn if you ever do ult him (never seen it happen) the game is obviously yours.
January 18, 2015 1:58 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #27
It's not a case of playing one over the other. People are discussing whether there's room for both.
January 18, 2015 2 p.m.
Also, I mostly mentioned him in regard to U Tron where there is no Karn to compete with to begin with. The reasoning being that U Tron has a shitton of counters to deal with dodgy stuff before they're even a problem but limited removal options, usually counting on Oblivion Stone which can be a problem because you may need to waste multiple turns fate countering your stuff which is obviously counterproductive. Whereas Ugin will instantly boardwipe or lightning bolt as soon as he enters the battlefield, without killing your wurmcoil or sundering titan. Plus, when people sideboard in all their artifact hate, ugin is safe, o-stone is not. Or am I just wishing really hard?
January 18, 2015 2:10 p.m.
I can see him fitting in mono U tron except for the fact that he can't be tutored which is kinda bad.
January 18, 2015 2:26 p.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #30
I'm running WU tron (no Gifts Ungiven/Unburial Rites/Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite shenanigans here) and I still think I'll run him as a one of. Because I drafted him yesterday :D Yes you can't tutor him with Treasure Mage, and yes Karn Liberated is better since it can hit the board on turn 3. But damn if you drop that Ugin, the Spirit Dragon on turn 4 it's still a thing... It helps you wipe the board (pretty useful for WU tron) and if you ultimate him it's GG. Still looks like a decent threat to me. I'll play him and see how it goes :)
February 5, 2015 10:02 a.m.
I've been running him as two of in my mono U Tron since release and everytime he dropped, be it turn 4 or turn 12 it's always been GG
February 5, 2015 11:48 a.m.
All is dust is one time. Ugin is repeatable, for one more mana only. Plus it breaks stalls with the +1, and when you play u-tron, you know that Platinum Angel stalls happen. Disturbingly often.
February 5, 2015 3:42 p.m.
scottemery says... #34
Platinum angel stalls do happen which is why we play spellburst and which is why most lists play it over platinum emporium, because it has flying and can beat down fast. Also the difference between 7 and 8 mana in U Tron is really not much concern, getting tron online turn 3 is actually one of our worst scenarios, early game we want counters, counters, counters. With that said I think if played at 2 and if your list doesn't rely heavily on treasure mage and fabricate, it could be viable.
February 6, 2015 3:01 a.m.
Seems like this discussiom is dead but wanted to write my opinion anyways.I drafted one Ugin last week in a Dragons/Fate Draft and got another Foil one in my price booters.I have also have played MonoU Tron for quiet a time now and I have to say that Ugin is absolutely broken in there.With all the filtering and drawing you should be able to draw one fast and then he wins games all alone because your counter spells will do the rest after he kills any creature left.In my test games(vs. Melira Company and Gruul Burn) he was good enough that I sometimes didnt even needee MS lock to win.
klone13 says... #2
it would definitely see play in various tron builds
January 18, 2015 10:07 a.m.