The state of control in modern
Modern forum
Posted on Jan. 9, 2017, 3:43 p.m. by 2austin5
Hey all,
I am considering (again) starting to get back into the magic scene after almost two years of being absent from any organized play. Last I left, control was more or less fringe in modern, and Delver grixis was the main contender for the spot.
With the recent spoiler of Fatal Push, I am a bit excited for the archetype as a whole. I know there is an economics thread on the card, I am unaware if there is a general discussion in these forums on it. I apologize if its been beaten to death already. Back to the point, I know one card doesn't build an archetype (generally)but the introduction should help control as a whole, you know, minus the recent banning of our beloved Gitaxian Probe which could be a debated spot in a deck as is. SO with that what are we as a community feeling on the control front? Can Esper or Jund control make an impact now with our new 1 drop friend? I currently like both color schemes for the archetype, I just don't know which I should try and commit to. Thanks for any and all insight!
TheGreatLiar says... #3
Here's a list of cards that, without accounting for anything else, Lightning Bolt can't kill, but Fatal Push can: Tarmogoyf, Celestial Colonnade, Death's Shadow, Knight of the Reliquary, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, Master of Waves, Scavenging Ooze (if you kill one with bolt your opponent is an idiot or he needed the value he already got), Restoration Angel, Linvala, Keeper of Silence...
Add to this the fact that Fatal Push doesn't care if you pump you creature, so Raging Ravine is always vulnerable, as is Inkmoth Nexus through pump spells, and (almost) all of affinity through Arcbound Ravager.
List of modern relevant creatures bolt kills, but not Fatal Push: Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Mirran Crusader.
Overhyped? Yeah, probably. But not by much.
And for the question posed by op: control is primed to do great work IF it can answer big mana decks like Tron.
January 9, 2017 8:17 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #4
Unfortunately Modern remains too fast for Control decks to be viable.
January 9, 2017 9:11 p.m.
Modern is too fast, which means it is too vulnerable to the tiniest amounts of disruption and control. Most of the fast decks are vulnerable to one of their creatures dying, while other are ruined by a couple of key sideboard cards.
Especially with the printing of fatal push and the unbanning of ancestral visions, Control has gotten the push it needs.
I feel like Esper Control is best postioned to take control of the meta. White for the best sideboard and Path, blue counters and late game draw, black removal.
OGW inspired me to make ProcEspers a year ago, a deck that got even stronger with the printings of Fatal Push and Spell Queller.
January 10, 2017 5:04 a.m.
final push aint what a deck like Esper Control needed most, it already had path, which if the deck was any good would suffice, since a good control deck will gladly trade early tempo for threat removal. And anyway, black already offered something better, discard disruption.
And yet Esper control doesn't currently accomplish anything. it sits around drawing cards, wiping the board, and not winning, until it finally rans out of answers, gets overwhelmed by threats, and folds.
Esper needs better inevitability than tokens and manlands, and better answers than strict tempo plays or terribly overpriced counterspells.
and wotc isnt likely to give them those tools any time soon
January 12, 2017 10:50 a.m.
mymanpotsandpans says... #7
Why not Mardu Nahiri and just run all of the holy trifecta of removal? Namely bolt, path, and push. You have some of the best removal cards minus Abrupt Decay. All the sweepers for at all points in the game Wrath of God/Damnation, Anger of the Gods, and Pyroclasm. You actually have a means to decisively end a game with an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or grinding your opponent out with Liliana of the Veil. Most builds run between 1 to maybe 4 creatures and they all trade poorly with removal or not at all. Emrakul laughs at spot removal and so does Lingering Souls.
I don't think Fatal Push is going to suddenly make certain control decks magically tier one. But I do see this as another strong tool in a deck already poised to be a strong contender. There are also Jeskai or Boros variants if that is more your thing.
Xica says... #2
Well herds of people tend to behave predictably.
Fatal Push may or may not earn a spot in tri color black lists. People love to overhype Lightning Bolt even in decks where the reach it provides doesn't help much.
It will probably be played by a very small minority of sultai midrange players, maybe even by abzan. I have doubts about Jund or Grixis players thinking about it.
After all if it ain't broke don't fix it, and using your head is so much hassle.
(I highly doubt its enough to start any new archetype, or bring something out of fringe play in the short term.)
Tha banning of Gitaxian Probe will hurt Death's shadow zoo the most. Nearly all the decks in modern that play it picked it up after Ponder got good results at a some tournaments. Since people played it they looked for substitute, and found it in this card.
January 9, 2017 5:21 p.m.