The Sky is Falling and Other Lessons We Learned from Pro Tour: Oath of the Gatewatch

Modern forum

Posted on Feb. 8, 2016, 2 p.m. by DrFunk27

First I'd like to say that I've recently started writing again, and I'm considering a monthly or bi-monthly Modern article for T/O. I'm not sure who to convene with about this, but I would assume Yeago (not linking him on purpose, don't need to summon him to my lowly thread.) but if anyone knows how I get involved in writing an article series, let me know.

Second, long thread titles seem to get more views, so I can check that block.

Third, and I promise this is my last point, before I ramble on about what we as players learned from Pro Tour, is that I've recently enjoyed engaging threads from the T/O community, and I hope this will continue. I believe civil discourse to be both a lost art, and invaluable life skill. Through this "article," I would ask that everyone comment with respectful civility, however, you should be ready to defend whichever position you choose. It is important that you understand why you choose to believe something, rather than just for the sake of it but I digress.

Act I: The Sky is Falling

Curtains open to a sole figure, weeping. A deckbox lays at their feet, opened, with cards strewn across the floor. In their hand, the audience can barely make out the card, but they know. They all know what calamity has befallen this player.

Almost everyone knows that Splinter Twin was banned in the preceding weeks to Pro Tour. This is not new, and I'm not going to dive into the 5 W's of the ban. There are enough articles, opinions, and general resentment for this decision floating around all over the internet. What I would like to say is that the mood of the Magic community seems to be that of our dear fellow, Chicken Little. Why do I say that? As a player who loves Modern as a format, and who has endured my fair share of bans (RIP Deathrite Shaman and Bloodbraid Elf), I think that we, as players and a community, need to step back and actually dissect the meta game. Before we get to Act II, I think we should all at least start on a base level that, "No, Modern's sky is not falling. The format is not going to completely implode from one great showing of a new archetype." If you disagree, please feel free to outline your argument in the comments, but for the sake of this article, that is the premise on which I will build my argument. Curtains Close

ACT II: Creatures. Creatures everywhere.

Curtains open to a feature match where 2 Eldrazi decks are battling for supremacy. As each player takes turn attacking, life totals change, and creatures die. Player 2, down to 1 life passes the turn. Player 1, untaps, draws and top decks a Gut Shot for the win! The crowd goes wild! Eldrazi are awesome! We love mirror matches! Goooooo Eldrazi!

With the twin ban, it came as no surprise that the meta would speed up. Without the inevitable T4 Twin win, or the Summer Bloom into Primeval Titan for the T3 win, the format was likely to increase in popularity in 2 different ways. Creatures or Unfair strategies. Now, as far as unfair strategies are concerned, I'm not going to dive to deep into them, except to say that I consider the unfair decks to be the following:

  1. Infect
  2. Melira Chord
  3. Storm
  4. Tron
  5. Living End
  6. Grishoalbrand
  7. Valakut

I've probably missed a few decks, but that makes up most of them. If I've missed any, please let me know. The fair decks that have increased in popularity are:

  1. Affinity
  2. Suicide Zoo
  3. Burn
  4. Jund

Now, the question you've all been waiting for. "Where does Eldrazi fit into the new meta?" This is a somewhat tough question, because the answer isn't as clear as you would think. In it's purest form, it's an aggressive creature deck that does very unfair things by abusing Eye of Ugin to reduce the casting costs of it's creatures. However, at it's heart, this deck is really just an aggro or midrange deck that is highly resilient and consistent. I'm not ready to call this an unfair deck yet but I'm definitely leaning towards calling it an unfair deck based on it's explosive start and extremely strong top decks.

For those that either chose to watch or could not watch the Pro Tour, I'm sure you're aware that 6 of the top 8 decks featured an Eldrazi archetype. This wasn't a surprise the week leading up to Pro Tour, as Eldrazi seemed to have the edge on the metagame, but I was still surprised to see 6 of 8 in the last day. Most players have called for an immediate ban for Eye of Ugin. Others are annoyed, angry, and hostile to Modern based on the fact that Eldrazi SEEM to have completely taken over the format. It is true 6 of the top 8 were Eldrazi, but what most of us are overlooking are decks 9-50. If you really peel back the layers of Pro Tour, you will see an incredibly diverse field. It is there we will end this article.

Act III: The Finale: The Overlooked Results

Here is a wall of text for your viewing pleasure. These are all the decks, in point order, that scored 20+ points at the Pro Tour. Read through this and tell me what you see, because at the end I will outline what I see when I look at this list.

28 pts Eldrazi Aggro

28 pts Affinity

27 pts Eldrazi Aggro

27 pts Eldrazi Aggro

27 pts Archangel Chord

27 pts Eldrazi Aggro

25 pts Eldrazi Aggro

25 pts Affinity

25 pts Eldrazi Aggro

24 pts Lantern Control

24 pts Melira Chord

24 pts Bushwhacker Zoo

24 pts Magus Zoo

24 pts Eldrazi Aggro

24 pts Naya Burn

24 pts Jund

24 pts Valakut

24 pts Affinity

24 pts Through the Breach

24 pts Eldrazi Aggro

22 pts Eldrazi Aggro

22 pts Mardu

21 pts Junk

21 pts Jund

21 pts Infect

21 pts Infect

21 pts Infect

21 pts Melira Chord

21 pts Though the Valakut

21 pts Though the Valakut

21 pts UWr Kikki

21 pts Naya Burn

21 pts Naya Burn

21 pts Melira Chord

21 pts Infect

21 pts Naya Burn

21 pts Mardu

21 pts Eldrazi Aggro

21 pts Affinity

21 pts Affinity

21 pts Archangel Chord

21 ptsArchangel Chord

21 pts Affinity

21 pts Affinity

21 pts Ad Nauseam

21 pts Affinity

21 pts Affinity

21 pts Affinity

21 pts Infect

21 pts Blue Moon

21 pts Elves

21 pts Grishoalbrand

21 pts Grixis Delver

21 pts Infect

21 pts Bushwhacker Zoo

21 pts Eldrazi Aggro

21 pts Death Shadow Zoo

21 pts Eldrazi Aggro

21 pts Death's Shadow Zoo

21 pts Eldrazi Aggro

13 of the above 60 decks are Eldrazi. 10 are Affinity. 10 are a form of Zoo/Burn. 6 are infect. 5 are a form of Collected Chord combo. 4 are Valakut combo. There are smatterings of decks like Jund, Junk, Elves, Lantern Control, Grixis Delver, Blue Moon, Ad Nauseum, and UWr Kiki. This is what we need to look at when we decide to overreact to 6 Eldrazi decks in the top 8. Reid Duke nearly made Top 8 with his Jund incarnation, using Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. This is exciting. Junk appeared once, although I'm unsure if this is because it was over-matched or if it was just not played in favor of different decks. Affinity is making a resurgence. Infect is gaining popularity. I would suggest that, although Eldrazi decks are fast, the format as a whole is just fine. What we need to remember is that the Top 8 does not define the meta-game or format.

In the next months, players will look to cards that will help their match-up with Eldrazi. In doing so, Eldrazi will begin to taper off, still putting up solid results, but nowhere near the level of this Pro Tour. Already, groups are looking (and have found) cards that help defeat the eldrazi giant. Cards such as Dismember, Vampire Hexmage, Torpor Orb, Ratchet Bomb, Painter's Servant, Ensnaring Bridge, Blood Moon, etc.

Thus ends my first article. I apologize if I've rambled, but it's been awhile since I've transcribed my thoughts (and feelings) into (somewhat) cohesive sentences. Please feel free to counter my arguments and present your own theories. Please be respectful, and if you managed to read all of this, thank you! I look forward to writing more in the future if the community enjoys reading my article.

Raises Flame Shield

The.End.

GlistenerAgent says... #2

Combo decks and aggro decks. We know.

We also know how a control deck should be built now.

February 8, 2016 2:12 p.m.

VampireArmy says... #3

No, Gagent. You know. Others don't as evidenced through the panic that is sweeping modern that i can almost guarantee will result in some from of ban.

People are reactionary. I like this discussion though. What can your deck do to beat this new deck? Explore those options first.

February 8, 2016 2:17 p.m.

TheFoilAjani says... #4

Subbing to thread for future ref. I can write larger thoguhts later today.

February 8, 2016 2:22 p.m.

mtgThaen says... #5

Good work! I enjoyed the article!

February 8, 2016 2:23 p.m.

abenz419 says... #6

Definitely refreshing to see someone evaluate the information as a whole and not see the knee-jerk overreactions that are running rampant everywhere. Blinded by anger that their favorite deck got banned, most can't see the forest through the trees so of course it feels like the sky is falling to them. Fortunately, cooler heads will prevail and players in the competitive scene will find answers and other options to play. All the over reactors will see this and as they try to mimic that success they'll realize the sky isn't actually falling in on them. It's annoying to deal with all of it now, but in the end things will shape up.

February 8, 2016 2:24 p.m.

GlistenerAgent says... #7

VampireArmy

We have a metagame now. Build your deck to beat Eldrazi, Infect, Affinity, and ground creature decks (Zoo, Kitchen Finks decks).

February 8, 2016 2:32 p.m.

DrFunk27 says... #8

GlistenerAgent I was hoping you would chime in. lol Your pithy comments are always good for a laugh. So what's your answer to all of this then? Do you have a solution? Or do you just want to chime in with sarcastic comments without actually fixing the problem. Just wondering what your thoughts are.

February 8, 2016 2:41 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #9

I disagree with almost everything you wrote.

February 8, 2016 2:42 p.m.

DrFunk27 says... #10

ChiefBell lol Do you want to elaborate or just disagree. lol I'm not saying what I've written is the gospel, it's just how I feel after watching the PT.

February 8, 2016 2:50 p.m.

dan8080 says... #11

this may be just a nitpick but there are actually 13 eldrazi decks by my count. Doesn't make a huge difference but figured I'd let you know good read though as I've been split on how to feel about the deck. Like it looks bonkers and completely unfair but it is beatable I knew about how bridge, blood moon and painter's handle the deck but I totally blanked on torpor orb and I'm glad I didn't get rid of those. there is also Big Game Hunter for those who are using LotV.

oh and just because I think it may be relevant, it may seem dumb but Doom Blade is always a card, the only major cards in modern it can't hit that I can think of are siege rhino, played in basically one deck right now, tasigur, Big fish ( aka Gurmag angler), bob if that really matters to you, viscera seer if you don't have bolt or something else like that already and kalitas if he catches on (kind of hope he does cause he's sick) correct me if I missed a major black creature but doom blade isn't looking to bad right now.

February 8, 2016 2:51 p.m.

abenz419 says... #12

DrFunk27 I was hoping you would chime in. lol Your pithy comments are always good for a laugh. So what's your answer to all of this then? Do you have a solution? Or do you just want to chime in with sarcastic comments without actually fixing the problem. Just wondering what your thoughts are.

see what I did there lol!

February 8, 2016 2:53 p.m.

DrFunk27 says... #13

abenz419 Hey! I made this thread, my thoughts are at the top. lol I have ideas for ways to beat it, but it's not easy and it won't be.

dan8080 Thanks for your comment. I definitely miscounted there. I will edit that. Thanks!

February 8, 2016 2:55 p.m.

It's to be expected that few true control decks show up to the PT because you don't know what answers you need. Now we know, so those decks should gain in popularity.

I don't know what I'll be doing yet, I've been looking at some combo options but haven't given significant thought to building a control deck. I recommend that people find a different deck choice if possible, as it feels like everyone be like "halp sideboard cards my deck Eldrazi beat pls"

February 8, 2016 3:04 p.m.

abenz419 says... #15

HAHA I realized you made the thread. It's just as you were asking him if he was just chiming in with sarcastic comments, your comment itself was just a sarcastic comment so I was having fun. lol.

February 8, 2016 3:06 p.m.

DrFunk27 says... #16

GlistenerAgent Haha, that's too perfect. I totally understand. What do you think about Esper right now? Has all 3 board wipes, counters, lifegain, etc. I'd like to see a control list do well, but I'm also unsure which way to go with it. Seems like T1 Spell Snare would be important, and T2 Mana Leak could be good.

abenz419 Yes, my comment was a bit sarcastic. lol

February 8, 2016 3:11 p.m.

Murpy says... #17

I completely understand what you're saying but I have to disagree. Everyone at the professional level knew these linear aggro decks were going to be huge, and they decided to play them. We know this because no one was playing tron, what we originally thought was going to be really good. I highly doubt over 75 percent of the field played the decks to beat the hypothetical best deck without there having been a tournament prior to determine the best deck. I think the pros all realized linear aggro was going to be great and then played it. This tells me that, since they are obviously testing extensively, there was not a good answer deck for these linear strategies that could be found anywhere. The cards you suggest as answers are certainly interesting (I really like the hexmage and ensnaring bridge idea) but the issue is that chalice attacks from a very different angle than the rest of the deck. Hexmage is awesome and I really like that idea. Painters servant seems like an okay sideboard card, but it comes down after they can already play thought-nought seer and it just locks out eye of ugin. Blood moon has been proven to be a turn too slow, which we know from the people playin blue moon. Honestly, I'd be playing lantern right now because the deck plays ensnaring bridge. I'm not superimpressed with the other answers. Also, I'm not concerned with just the eldrazi deck but with the answers for the linear aggro strategies on general.

February 8, 2016 3:31 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #18

So yeah. When Twin was banned I was very disappointed because, from my perspective, the deck was good but did nothing particularly degenerate by modern standards. It sort of fit very neatly into the category of 'this is what a modern deck should do' in terms of its tempo and how it was constructed. So, anyway, I was annoyed, but there you go.

I remember I posted in the modern forum and various other threads around that time saying that the format would degenerate into decks that lacked interaction. The format wouldn't speed up. It would slow down. Twin very specifically stopped slow creature decks from existing unless they had strong control elements. If you have a prevalent deck that combos T4 for an instant win it stifles creature decks that run no removal and want to go to T5. That makes sense. Affinity has always existed and continues to exist now because its a T3/T4 win. So does burn. So does infect. Those decks haven't got better. What has got better is creature based midrange that doesn't pack removal - Eldrazi decks.

So I posted my concerns and everyone said 'calm down, it's not so bad, I don't think it'll degenerate into only creature decks with no removal'. I watched over the next two weeks and indeed it became true that decks with little interaction and linear strategies increased. Burn, affinity, infect etc. Many said Tron would go up but this made no sense because in such an aggressive format that deck can't really exist. I already felt vindicated.

Eldrazi emerged and initially it was a half-creature half-control strategy. It was fine but not great. It really went over the edge when this new colorless version emerged in the pro tour that went full in creature-aggro.

Because obviously with Twin gone you don't need control elements in a midrange deck. You can just play creatures. So they did.

And we get to what we have now. Fast non-interactive aggro decks battle slightly slower non-interactive creature decks for dominance. I feel like 10000% justified in my earlier concerns and totally vindicated at this point.

I'm not going to go into why this new deck is degenerate (simply put it does too much, too quickly, too efficiently), but the meta was obvious to me as soon as Twin was banned.

But we have a clear meta now and Control decks can try to take advantage of it. Wrath heavy control could be a thing, who knows. I personally think its unlikely given that Eldrazi can T1 a playset of Eldrazi Mimic and then swing for 12 or 16 on T2 due to Matter Reshaper or Thought-Knot Seer but there you go. It would be ironic if wizards didnt ban it given that this deck really can break the turn 4 rule in a big, big way.

My perspective on this new deck is that mixes aggro and ramp elements in a really lethal way. You can't just sideboard Blood Moon and be done with it, nor can you rely on wraths or Ensnaring Bridge. This is a deck that T2s Reality Smasher from time to time. This is a deck that fairly often has the most disgusting aggressive openers and can easily finish up with a huge Endless One if the game goes late. LSV said it's the most degenerate decks he's played since caw blade in standard. And we know it has game against aggro because the proof is in the pudding - the pro tour proved it can beat aggro.

February 8, 2016 3:54 p.m. Edited.

DrFunk27 says... #19

ChiefBell Thanks for your thoughts. I really wanted to know what you were thinking, as I generally agree with you. Extremely relevant points, and I'm sorry you feel so vindicated. I wouldn't take it to heart though. I also read LSVs comments and that actually scares me. When a deck is compared to caw blade, it's best that you listen. I still stand by my reasoning though that it's not going to break Modern. I think we could see control decks come back to life, but I'm not sure about midrange decks. It almost seems like it could become aggro, control or bust. I hope this doesn't happen, but I guess over the next 6 months we will find out.

February 8, 2016 4:20 p.m.

JANKYARD_DOG says... #20

Nicely written article, want to do my reports for my Communications Class? Lol. It is nice to see an article about PT not going "OMG Eldrazi" and "QQ splinter twin" (super happy not to be facing that again...). I think it was just a shock to the modern system having a release and a ban so close together. Not a lot of time to brew, and for those that don't have the $$ to drop on MTG last minute, they have to roll with what they got. I'm more a fan of rogue brews and hope that the quest to kill the Eldrazi Swarm will bring some more diversity to the format.

Things that could help; Aligned Hedron Network mmayb, 8-12 rack maybe make a comeback, who can know for sure. Maybe blue will show its controllish face again in some fashion. I don't have that level of devotion to reading through 6000+ modern legal cards looking for an answer, but I'm sure there are those that do. That's my 2 cents anyway.

February 8, 2016 5:21 p.m.

I personally feel with the rise of Eldrazi decks, I could definitely see an uptick in JUND and JUNK popularity because they have so much hand disruption, the threats and removal to keep up with these decks. Because once the Eldrazi deck is in top deck mode, yes their top decks can be far better, but the ability for a JUND or JUNK deck to wipe them of their resources and threats and stick their own threat will become more viable against these strategies.

February 8, 2016 5:35 p.m.

kengiczar says... #22

I don't see control decks being able to beat the Eldrazi when the control deck is on the draw. At least not stupid starts like Eldrazi Mimic x2 on T1 followed up by Endless One into turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer.

There is no way in hell control can beat that unless we all start packing Gemstone Caverns and Silence to Silence the opponent before they can cast 6 mana worth of spells for free on turn 1.

February 8, 2016 5:36 p.m.

zyphermage says... #23

When a deck comes out of the wood works and makes expensive midrange decks like tron/grixis/jund/junk obsolete I think there is a problem. Those mentioned decks can do decent but at heart they are outclassed. If only for the fact that their threats are similar to eldrazi, but come down not as early. T2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang or Tarmogoyf is nothing compared to T2 or even T3 Reality Smasher even with no Eldrazi Mimics out, with it becomes really busted. A T2 Tasigur spent it's first turn fetching and Thought Scouring itself, T1 eldrazi drops Chalice of the Void on 1 or a mimic before a Thought-Knot Seer or reality smasher.

February 8, 2016 5:43 p.m.

I'm with ChiefBell on this one. However, I will admit that I miscalculated when I made the assumption Tron would rise in popularity. Truth be told this is far worse in many ways. Yes, we have a meta now and that's fine, but the more I look at this deck and its variations I'm left with the difficult task of wondering how a control deck would even function against such a deck.

These decks can out aggro a control deck and if they don't out aggro you they will out value you. It's disgusting. The sky isn't falling, but if you can't deny there is something very disconcerting about this.

Everyone who's been here long enough knows my feelings on how WotC handles Modern. I won't blame them for this, not entirely. However, I think I feel justified in repeating that Twin was an unnecessary ban considering the results we are left with. For sure, time may mellow this deck out, but Modern continues to drift further away from actually having meaningful variety within its meta, and given these new Eldrazi decks I am not holding out hope for any meaningful Control deck. However, I am always willing to be proven wrong.

February 8, 2016 5:54 p.m.

DrFunk27 says... #25

CanadianShinobi I too agree with you that this is disconcerting, but I've always been a glass half full kinda guy. I'm willing to keep jamming Jund with a new SB plan of Ensnaring Bridge and Torpor Orb for now.

February 8, 2016 5:59 p.m.

zyphermage says... #26

I just got done playing grixis past few months and quite enjoyed it. There is no point to even playing the deck in modern anymore, since there is an obvious better thing I ought to be doing. I should add the likelihood of a T2 Tasigur is much much lower than that eldrazi does on T2.

First off there are 2-3 Tasigurs in the list to start with, you need to see fetchlands to fuel delve, and even with 9-10 fetches you might not have it. You also need to not see your 1-2 Creeping Tar Pit if you run them just to have mana on time. You also have to specifically see Thought Scour over Serum Visions. Gurmag Angler is also a sizeable early threat but costs even more to pull off.

What is my point? Point is I am using it as a standard of measurement for what fatties could be dropped on T2. Much like Splinter Twin on T4 was something you had to consider. Now you have to contend with a hasty 5/5 that costs you 2 cards to get rid of. Although it is most likely to come down T3 or later but still I see it as same likelihood of an early Tasigur.

Now obviously you aren't losing the same turn like with spinter twin, but with these eldrazi coming down it does seal it up pretty much against you. Unless you're playing infect and use Become Immense on an Inkmoth Nexus. I just think these fast mana enablers need to go. thought-knot seer, reality smasher, whatever your flavor they should not come down until what should be early T3 (with bans) over T2 now early, and T4-T5 average. Outclassing all other midrange decks, while packing a T1 chalice against aggro is just bonkers.

That being said I will jump on this bandwagon like I did with late bought splinter twins. I will take a loss on buying these cards just to enjoy it.

February 8, 2016 6:05 p.m. Edited.

kengiczar says... #27

Yeah I've got to say if I were to invest into modern right now it would be either JC's or Ivan's Eldrazi list. I like that JC can splash the and can play Eldrazi Obligator but I don't care for the high cost of Drowner of Hope.

I would replace it with Phyrexian Metamorph or Phantasmal Image.

It's kind of nice how you can clone Reality Smasher without any downside huh? Imagine getting a Blind Obedience out, the opponent plays Reality Smasher which comes in tapped then passes back. They are tapped out and you play Phantasmal Image using the Extort to siphon.

February 8, 2016 6:34 p.m.

dan8080 says... #28

Drowner is part of what makes that deck so good though like it's one of the key cards in the deck.

February 8, 2016 6:37 p.m.

DrFunk27 says... #29

Another card that could potentially help in slowing down Eldrazi is Blind Obedience. Too bad Tangle Wire isn't legal.

February 8, 2016 9:43 p.m. Edited.

xseiber says... #30

As me and a couple of friends have discussed, based on the result of the current pro-tour, is that there seems to be more problems than solutions, as it feels so to us.

As a Tron player, I get pretty salty towards really solid aggro decks, even more so when they're using Eye of Ugin to the utmost capability, to be fair, Eldrazi has always been a thing, mostly casual, so I am very happy that there is something new, fresh even being introduced into modern at a competitive level. Again, as a Tron player I would be sadden with the ban of Eye of Ugin, as usually that card is for me to search out for my chump blocker or face-samsher (ie. Wurmcoil Engine when I can't pull off the usual Karn or Ugin trick. So I feel that it is unfair to smack Eye of Ugin with a ban.

The only thing that me and my friends in our discussion can come up with that does not mean a straight-up Ban/Unban is to have a "Limited" list. Because let's be honest, a Ban would usually mean that a deck is killed or brutally neutered and an Unban would usually mean that the deck that used to play it is now outclassed by current cards/decks. With a few exception like Sword of the Meek and Stoneforge Mystic, in which there are decks that abuses those cards' individual effects for crazy/annoying combo plays.

Also, you have mentioned in in OP's post, that the Pro Tour doesn't mean end all, is all. People forget that and start freaking out and demand some pretty strong bans for next year. I'm sorry that Eldrazi is the new guy at an old people's club?

February 8, 2016 9:51 p.m.

DuTogira says... #31

I wonder if it's time to break out some janky Godhead of Awe + Night of Souls' Betrayal combos. Something like an abzan chord or Esper gifts variant might be able to use that.
Another tech card v eldrazi for the record: Leyline of Singularity. Leyline also hits Kiki-chord, burn (sometimes), and b/w tokens.

February 8, 2016 10:05 p.m.

C4rnif3X says... #32

I like the Leyline of Singularity, as a mulligan to having it would solve some of the problems. Still though, you definitely need a solid gameplan. I've been doing some testing with the enchantment lockdown list, and it seems pretty solid against them.

T1 - Leyline of Singularity + Oppressive Rays

T2 - Journey to Nowhere

T3 - Ghostly Prison

T4-5 - Sphere of Safety + Other stuff.

February 8, 2016 10:11 p.m. Edited.

DuTogira says... #33

At the point of enchant hate, I would just run Painter's Servant and one of the circles of protection, both as four ofs. Probably pro red.
Enchant hate decks are neat but... It really sucks if you draw the wrong ones.

February 8, 2016 10:28 p.m.

N3XT says... #34

As someone who loves playing janky combo decks every once in a while, an brews up weird decks with friends sometimes, I like the banning. Having to deal with the eldrazi horde is much more of a interesting and challenging goal than "go of by turn 4." That being said, I won't be suprised or sad about a emergency banhammer, as the eldrazi decks are no doubt the best decks in the format. Also, as time goes on, these decks will get better. Just sayin.

February 9, 2016 8:54 a.m.

DrFunk27 says... #35

For those who are subbed to this. Great read today on SCG. RELAX

February 11, 2016 3:17 p.m.

Rayenous says... #36

...So... with all the talk about 'how to beat Eldrazi', there's a lot of talk about running Painter's Servant, Ghost Quarter, Blood Moon, etc...

Has anyone mentioned Torpor Orb? - Probably not the best. - It certainly does nothing to stop the Ramp portion of the deck, but I think people may be a bit too focused on that.

The real oppressive starts (The 2 that everyone repeatedly mention, anyway) seem to be the early Eldrazi Mimics, and Thought-Knot Seers. - This turns both of them off... sure, with the right hand, they can still get out multiple 2/1's on T1... but If they won't be swinging as 4/4's or 5/5's, a little damage is okay. - And a 4-Drop 4/4 that does nothing but draw you a card when it dies. - I'd love to play against that!

February 11, 2016 4:03 p.m.

DrFunk27 says... #37

Rayenous Absolutely. I will be playing 2 Orbs as they are great against the field. Stop Rhino, Snap, etc. I'm also a fan of Ensnaring Bridge right now.

February 11, 2016 5:20 p.m.

Murpy says... #38

So what it seems like the deck people are forming is some sort of prison lockdown strategy. Here's where I think this sort of falls apart: it's a prison deck. I think the underlying issue is not that there's a lack of answers to the eldrazi, but that there's a lack of general answers for eldrazi. To have a fighting chance against twin, you just needed removal to hold up during the game. Tron wrecked some decks and got destroyed by others. Infect and removal, affinity and artifact hate. Eldrazi's weakness is either ensnaring bridge or... Maybe turn two blood moon or ghostly prison. These cards are not good against everyone (although they are against most), but more importantly, the plan people have come up with is free win red. That is not interactive magic, and it's not what we want. Imagine the entire modern format devolving into ensnaring bridge vs eldrazi. I think that we have the tools to beat eldrazi, but making every deck in the format have to run and be able to effectively use ensnaring bridge is not a good solution

February 12, 2016 10:46 a.m.

DuTogira says... #39

I'm still working on an eldrazi counter. The Land of Oz if anyone is interested. And yes it's a pili Pala combo deck. I think fast combos are going to be the best way to counter eldrazi decks.

February 12, 2016 11:06 a.m.

DrFunk27 says... #40

Murpy I don't think many decks at all will use Ensnaring Bridge. I should clarify that the only decks I think can use it would be a deck that utilizes hand disruption and Liliana of the Veil. Other than that, decks should look elsewhere. Torpor Orb is a fine SB card that has been played for many years now, not just because Eldrazi showed up. Golgari Charm kills early Mimics. Dismember kills Reality Smasher and stop the Mimic trigger unless their controller wants them to die too. Ghost Quarter kills Eye. There are ways to beat the deck.

I will agree that it would be bad for the format to devolve to Bridge vs Eldrazi but I don't see that happening.

February 12, 2016 11:10 a.m.

Murpy says... #41

A list like that seems pretty promising, with golgari charm as a great answer to chalice and a way to stop the mimics. However, I'm not sure if BGx has the ability to do well in this format. I'd be interested in a very controlling build running good removal, ensnaring bridge, Liliana, goyf, and a lot of hand disruption. It could be good, but we have to consider how much power we are losing against the rest of the format.

February 12, 2016 11:21 a.m.

DrFunk27 says... #42

Murpy BGx has always been exactly what you just described. I'm going to assume you've never played a BGx deck, because everything you just said is literally the entire deck. If what you mean is, running less creature for more removal, I think it could be possible, but it already plays so much hand disruption, etc.

For reference, this is the deck that I'm running now. There are only 1-3 Eldrazi Decks at my LGS. Since you can't Twin'em, Jund'em

February 12, 2016 11:33 a.m.

Murpy says... #43

BGx usually plays cards like bob, 4 drops, scooze, kolghan's. You can't be playing those against eldrazi. I'm proposing we dump all the creatures but goyf and instead bring in 8 discard spells and boardwipes. I know what BGx is, but they're playing a lot of bad cards and right now it's trying to be an aggressive deck you want boardwipes against when it is getting out-aggroed by everything else in the format and it isn't good enough to play control.

February 12, 2016 2:41 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #44

Lol

February 12, 2016 4:04 p.m.

DrFunk27 says... #45

ChiefBell I don't even have a response anymore. You wanna take over? lol

February 12, 2016 4:08 p.m.

DrFunk27 thanks for linking that article. excellent read.

February 12, 2016 5:37 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #47

I can't be bothered anymore. Too many individuals with opinions, too few willing to learn.

February 12, 2016 5:43 p.m.

DrFunk27 says... #48

ChiefBell Bah Humbug. lol

Honestly though, have you read some of the articles that have been written? Has anything in your mind changed? Lurking on MTGTOP8.com for results, Eldrazi Aggro is winning; a lot. I may actually have to apologize for my initial post. It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong and it won't be the last.

So far, every top 8 has had at least 4 Eldrazi decks. This is a huge problem. I'm not willing to cry wolf yet, but so far it's not looking good.

February 12, 2016 5:55 p.m.

Murpy says... #49

This is exactly what I was afraid of, no one believed me :(. All hail cawblade 2.0! In all honesty though, maybe we should be looking at antieldrazi decks now, since I'm not sure how to beat them with conventional decks.

February 12, 2016 6:06 p.m.

DuTogira says... #50

You want a deck that punishes a linear Aggro strategy with almost no removal? This is my last shot at proposing this, but creature based combos like Grand Architect + Pili-Pala seem pretty sweet right now. I'm not linking a deck again, there are already a good 4+ throughout this comment section, but rather than try to play a deck which is slower than the eldrazi, why not just race them? Those decks still exist.

February 12, 2016 6:24 p.m.

This discussion has been closed