Spirits, New Love for an Old Tribe
Modern forum
Posted on July 17, 2016, 6:44 a.m. by RoarMaster
Ok, so Imma a lil tipsy, but here goes...
So Tribes are cool right? Everyone has had a tribal deck in their day, and if not well F*** you too bud. Goblins? Fish? Meathooks? C'mon now you know you played em. Aside from my abrasive intro, here we go...
Spirits got a lotta love back in Kamigawa(Whats Kamigawa?), but unfortunately they were such a big theme for the set they really couldnt print many(any?) good spirits in the set as to not overpower them. Personal opinion right there.
Other than, most notably, Tallowisp, a card advantage tribal engine waiting to be used. Right? I mean, he is badass, play a spirit, tutor an aura. Tribal card advantage is one of the rarest and most coveted of abilities. Most tribal decks dont involve a lot of card advantage, and the ones that do tend to be the competitive ones.
With the new innistrad shenanigans we get new spirits with a new theme. Instead of the cool but innefective soulshift, we get to tap stuff. Normally Id be like "WTF?!" But at least in innistrad we get a S***ton of flying, and more board control, and most importantly, at competitive costs.
What makes spirits stand out from the crowd of tribal wannabees? Instant Speed. Rattlechains himself allows for very reactive play. Hold all the PtE, Mana Leaks in your hand and not worry about tapping out and leaving yourself open.
spellqueller adds to that counterspell/instant speed response ability. Probably one of the best things to hit modern in my opinion. Mad advantage right there imho.
Drogskol Captain needs no introduction. Helps stall out pointed removal at the worst.
Giest of Saint Traft finisher, table flipper with Steel of the Godhead
So spirits now have some toys. Cool.
But wait, we need 1-drops! AEther Vial adds more instant speed ability, as well as Topplegeist who, imho, if you could reliably get delerium, would be F*** Amazing! but that s is tough, so we wont bother thinking about it. On the otherhand we have the Mausoleum Wanderer who is just so good by himself. Added protection to your important guys, or just mana advantag via fear of use, this guys spirit prowess is applicable especially for instant speed combat tricks.
So finishing up, spirits hav a unique tribal influence, limited access to lords, but captain is probably one of the best lords printed for any tribe. The natural flying evasion allows for aggressive starts against slower decks, although it lacks the late game big guns of some decks.
What do you think is required to put spirits on the map of competitive tribes in the modern scene? Or just any othe random ramblings on the topic of modern spirits would be cool. This is a drunk post after all ;P
I'm currently testing this online. It's going well. Spirits are indeed now legitimately a modern tribe.
Spirited Away
Modern
SCORE: 2 | 9 COMMENTS | 136 VIEWS
July 17, 2016 1:33 p.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #4
People. Why are you trying to make spirits a thing in modern when most of the spirit support is standard legal? The difference in power between the standard and modern spirits is far less than the average difference in power level of standard and modern as wholes. If you love spirits, they will be much more effective in standard.
If you insist on making modern spirits a thing, DrFunk27's list above is a solid start. For the love of god, please do NOT put Topplegeist your modern spirits deck. The card isn't good enough to make the cut for standard spirits, nvm modern.
July 17, 2016 3:32 p.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #5
Sorry for the double post, but I just wanted to mention that I don't think counterspells are the best fit for spirits. Merfolk, a mono-blue tribal deck, plays 0 counterspells. Spirits are a bit different because they play better at instant speed, but you really need a high creature density for the deck to work. Without a high creature count, payoffs and engines like Drogskol Captain (which is a bit weak imo) and Bygone Bishop just fall short. If the spirit payoff isn't there, than you are simply playing a bad u/w tempo/flyers deck. And that is not where you want to be.
July 17, 2016 3:40 p.m.
pumpkinwavy Thanks for the compliment, I think? lol Honestly though, it's nowhere near the competitive level Fish is, but that's no surprise. I definitely think it's strong enough for fun at FNM but it won't be taking down a GP or IQ anytime soon.
July 17, 2016 3:50 p.m.
JaceArveduin says... #7
The difference is fish have so many playable +1/+1 lords, so you need a different game plan
July 17, 2016 7:12 p.m.
RoarMaster says... #8
aholder7 I dont think topplegeist is worth it if you cannot force delerium. Also, remand Id say is more of a tempo card than hard control, which a slower tribe like Spirits would probably want.
pumpkinwavy People may be trying to makes spirits a modern thing for many reasons, like they think standard is silly for example and dont play it. Also, the one true Lord that they have isnt in standard, and there are other powerful spirits we get access to such as Giest of st Traft, Kira, tallowisp, dungeon geists, windborn muse, ect. IMHO Drokskol is one of the best 3 drop lords in the game, hexproof/shroud in a tribal deck is clutch, Merfolk splash out of tribe for Kira for example. And he comes with evasion as icing on the cake.While talking about merfolk, Ive played them for almost a decade now, and there are many things wrong with the parallels you are drawing. Starters, Fish ran a significant number of counters for a long time, but as the meta has shifted to a more midrange-rampy-beaty sort of thing, the need for combo removal has lessened, while peoples ability to play around manaleak has increased. Additionally, running 3 true lords in the deck allows Merfolk to take an aggro stance, push through that islandwalking 20 points very quickly before your opponent can muster a response, wheras Spirits are not big naturally and only come with one true lord, meaning even though they have evasion, they are required to play a longer game to get lethal damage in. Finally, a starting fish hand with a counterspell and no vial is a bad one as you want to be dropping those aggressive lords as fast as you can, not holding back on your T2 mana waiting to maybe leak a guy. As JaceArveduin said, they are different tribes with dfferent strengths and weaknesses, just because fish doesnt run somehing doesnt mean other decks shouldnt, depending on deck play.
DrFunk27 A couple thoughts on your deck: Spreading seas? Fish run it cause it garuntees islandwalk, they are generally sorcery speed, and it helps vs some matchups such as tron and eldrazi, but I dont really see it being worth a mainboard slot in spirits just for the landbased matchups myself.Aether vial is awesome and all, but your creature cost/count seems less than ideal for it atm. 4/6/13 seems a bit light on the 2 drops imhoRemand I feel is more tempo based than control, and spirits I feel wont gain a lot of a tempo swing out of it. I could be out to lunch on that though, how has it fared in your playtesting so far?
What do you think of Tallowisp? Haha, works well with your spreading seas :P But yeah, its card advantage/tutor on a reasonable body(sadly lacking flying though) that lives through the formats rampant 2/1 2 drop bomb creatures. Im thinking of adding a very tight toolbox aura suite to it, maybe 2-4 cards? Whatchu think there willis?
July 17, 2016 9:26 p.m.
RoarMaster I'm not sold on spreading seas myself. Just testing it. Remand is great to buy time if my opponent attempts a board wipe like wrath of god or damnation. Can also buy time against Tron. Tallowisp is not exactly a stellar creature for Spirits decks. At best it could tutor a Steel of the Godhead but I'm not sold on it. I will probably take out the seas and play 3 more creatures. Vial is extremely important to the deck. Instant speed, uncounterable creatures are important.
July 17, 2016 9:29 p.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #10
I'm really not convinced on Drogskol Captain is that great a lord. Vanilla lords have not proven themselves that strong, and the uncommon spirit lord is just that. The hexproof bonus is marginal because that removal can simply be pointed at him instead.
Granted, there are situations in which the captain can be incredible. For example, if, through AEther Vial or Rattlechains, you can play this card at instant speed to protect a creature you control from dying to removal. If you do this you may not get the +1+1 bonus for combat but you do get to save a creature.
Drogskol Captain is also the best lord in multiples. All your creatures will have hexproof and also have +2+2, which is impressive. He also pairs well with Phantasmal Image. Imagine a turn 3 where you cast Drogskol Captain and vial in a Phantasmal Image. That's value!
I believe that Drogskol Captain is good enough for the spirits deck, but its not the card that makes up for the rest of the deck's lack of card quality. There is also the problem that spirits are packed to the brim with 3 drops. Is Drogskol Captain better than Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, Geist of Saint Traft and Spell Queller? If we play, say, a 4-2-3-4 split of those cards, then we have 13 3 drops. Not unreasonable, but pushing it, I'd say.
RoarMaster I do agree with you that counterspells are better suited to spirits than to merfolk, but there are two problems with playing Mana Leak and the like.
As I have already outlined counterspells reduce creature density. Counters do not replace themselves like Spreading Seas does. Lords are not at their best when pumping a single creature. The more spell-based interaction you play, the less spirits you play. My previous post talks about this.
The second problem is that counters are generally weak in modern. Mana Leak is just not that good. Cryptic Command is a bit on the costly side for a tribal deck, while Spell Snare is too conditional and doesn't hit the cards that REALLY matter. Remand is likely the best option, but its a purely tempo card and weak against the fast decks.
The creature based counters, on the other hand, are awesome. Mausoleum Wanderer and Spell Queller are already 8 maindeck counters. I'd pad that with two Remands and stick with that for countermagic.
Alright, last paragraph, I swear. Tallowisp is bad. It forces you to play creature enchantments, which aren't even that great when they work. Sadly it can't fetch Spreading Seas. Body is also very weak on its own.
July 17, 2016 10:20 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #11
@aholder7: I assume you meant to say four vials. There is no deck in existence that wants to run a number of vials other than four or zero.
July 18, 2016 12:17 a.m.
The only thing I've ever used Tallowisp for was in a very casual trick deck using Call to the Kindred to cheat out Eldrazi. Otherwise it really doesn't go well with what Spirits seem to be becoming now -- Tempo Flash.
Celestial Crusader is one I've been thinking about -- 4 mana for an anthem for White, so not as great as it could be tribally compared to The Captain, but Split Second could be useful in certain situations.
July 18, 2016 4:01 a.m.
Skulloelegy I too was looking at Crusader. Instead I'm testing Dungeon Geists. Doesn't pass the Bolt test, which is bad, but oh well.
July 18, 2016 12:30 p.m.
I think you could take spirits in a number of directions. When it comes to competitive play however, let's look at what seems to be the three different directions as far as U/W.
Tallowisp is cute but I feel it will end up playing like a bad Bogles. It takes time to get hexproof online and I'd rather spend the I would be taking to making one guy better to make my whole team better. You could possibly implement some Aura Swap + Eldrazi Conscription combo and play like a modern iteration of the standard Sovereigns of Lost Alara + Conscription combo. Again, it all just feel like bad Bogles.
AEther Vial seems to be a popular route and while is viable by hearing it's creature curve down with Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit and Phantasmal Image. I don't have much practice with the Vial but I always felt the reason Merfolk got such power from it was because of the solid two drop foundation. Spirits are looking more for three drops. Might not be much difference but I think the format is fast enough to punish that more severely than other builds of the tribe.
Lastly, the tribe could emulate Faeries. But instead of being disruptive, it would be protective which I think is the better choice in a aggro-shifted meta. Pairing the tribe with some of the best control in colors seems simpl but optimal. When you look at spirits, you see of lot of protecting effects. Hexproof, flash, a mix of combat and spell disruption, and then Windborn Muse is.. Seriously. Just look at it. Perfect on curve as three drops are so hexproof focused. I've tested it and it's just won games that would have been lost and dominated in games where I would have just won. Even in games I lose, it still ended up giving me more time to find an out.
My own list has a lot of the staple U/W control spells but on the subject of powerful standard cards, it really is true how perfect Ojutai's Command is for the deck. The lifegain and card draw are always relevant, always. And in a creature focused format, countering a creature is very relevant most of the time. The reanimating effect is what makes this card so powerful for the tribe. Being able to revive a Mausoleum Wanderer to block or pop a spell is super gravy. Reviving Rattlechains for the protection grant has a Snapcaster Mage feel about it. Reviving Selfless Spirit is super obviously powerful.
The sideboard also gets classic-done-better in Kataki, War's Wage which just makes Affinity players (and all other decks that receive the affinity hate package) cry. Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, another hate card for more midrange or removal heavy decks, also gets more powerful as bonus of now being tribal relevant. There's also tech spirits like Keening Apparition/Kami of Ancient Law and the aforementioned Kami of False Hope that get better as a tribal byproduct.
If the meta shifts from aggro then spirits could take a tumble in terms of how viable they really are and Faeries will likely supplant them, resuming their role as the control tribe to beat. In this aggro-midrange pushed era of the format, I really think spirits could make a name for themselves.
Spirited Away [Modern Spirit Control]
I've tested my current list against Burn, Ad Nauseam, Infect, Affinity, and Jund to name a few. There are definitely good and bad matchups as with any deck but it also felt like a real deck. For more detailed breakdowns, you can check the description on the page. Some quick notes;
Ad Nauseam has a really hard time beating Mausoleum Wanderer. Feels like one of those situations where the light at the end of their tunnel never comes.
Windborn Muse is a powerhouse. In testing against Infect, I may have been lucky enough to get enough Path to Exiles to keep them off their early creatures but the Muse made it impossible for that deck to pump its creatures as well as attack so perhaps it was because the Muse bought that time. In the second game I learned that Spell Queller doesn't care much for Become Immense.
The Muse also helped in testing against Affinity but Selfless Spirit and Ojutai's Command are work against them. We match their flyers pretty well and Kataki, War's Wage is a beautiful thing to flash on their draw step.
Burn is not unwinnable but is certainly a struggle. Hexproof is great when our opponent is using Lightning Bolt as a midrange removal spell but it's just writing on the card when it's our face with the target in it. Mausoleum Wanderer and Selfless Spirit do little to save you.
As I mentioned hexproof is great when our opponent is using Lightning Bolt as a midrange kill removal spell. It's also just great against Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse. All the protection gives us fair game against Jund and even allows us to freely race our opponent's Tarmogoyfs and Dark Confidants. Flying also makes Liliana of the Veil much less of a problem. Jund is a really matchup.
August 10, 2016 3:19 p.m.
jamesriley72281 says... #16
I've been tinkering with Modern Spirits and have had a blast with Tallowisp. Smells Like U/W Spirits
Steel on Geistt, Captain, for Queller is great. It's nice being able to search out a Pacifism if needed, or an Umbra to protect my Queller that much more.
aholder7 says... #2
well i think the list is possible, wether or not it works would need to be tested, but im seeing it positioned as a slower tempo list sort of like delver. aggressive evasive creatures with just enough control to keep the opponent off their game long enough to win. im guessing it would look something like:
4x Rattlechains, 4x Mausoleum Wanderer, 4x "whatever the name of the 2/1 flying spirit in standard is that you can sac to give indestructible or something good like that." 4x Remand 4x Path to Exile, 4x Mana Leak
3x dragskol 3x queller 3x traft 3x AEther Vial 3x Topplegeist
that leaves room for 21 land. and i dont feel like tweaking a mana base. just assume it has some number of collonade and Cavern of Souls and Mutavault etc.
July 17, 2016 1:06 p.m.