RTFC
Modern forum
Posted on April 27, 2017, 11 p.m. by Bulldawg1310
has anybody had the problem Ive had tonight? I played with eldrazi-tron (insert obligatory groans here) against aggro-zoo, my opponent rolled the dice, won the roll and had his Goblin Guide out and attacking before my deck was even shuffled and I decide to keep or mulligan. on turn two he dropped 2 more hasty creatures and had the game won because of skull crack on turn 3. not a single word was spoken by this guy, during our "match." I scooped and dropped after he shuffled his 2nd game hand. shouldn't it be required, that the active player explain the situation and control the status of the game? oh, and to ice the cake, his cards were in French. Had I not owned a zoo deck, I would have no clue as to what he was doing and or why.
Bulldawg1310 says... #3
To me, theres a difference between witholding common knowledge, such as you with the forge tender, and dropping three cards at the same time, not asking if there are ANY responses and swinging immediately. We had truly just started the match, we didnt know eachother, and most importantly were under no time constraints yet.
April 27, 2017 11:35 p.m.
I agree, there is a big difference! That's why I said on another note. If you have an issue with anything, then be up front about it and complain! It's not going to hurt you to do so and say "Hey, I haven't even shuffled my deck yet, I might have a response. If you could just slow down a little bit that'd be great." And if the guy doesn't do anything about it, or say anything, call a judge. He will be required to speak then, and if he still doesn't, he gets a game loss. So either way, it works in your favor.
April 27, 2017 11:38 p.m.
Bulldawg1310 says... #5
Good points, thank you icehit6 i appreciate you. Im fairly new to competitions. Im probably taking it too hard. For me, magic, especially at a lgs, should be about interaction, fun, and of course everyone wants to win. Im just annoyed at the, i guess you could call it a lack of sportsmanship.
April 27, 2017 11:42 p.m.
Competitive play can be quite daunting at first! However, I hope you'll find that most people are friendly. You'll meet some real interesting people along the way though. Being competitive and wanting to win and being an outright jerk are two very, very different things.
April 27, 2017 11:53 p.m.
Bulldawg1310 says... #7
I agree. Ive played in 4 modern events at my LGS and ive enjoyed almost every match, win or lose, except this last one. One of em got a little uncomfortable for me when i played against grixis crontol, and my opponent had a disability that had crumpled/cramped up his hands so he asked me if id do all his shuffling for him... interesting folk in the MTG community.
April 27, 2017 11:58 p.m.
Well that's good! How is the meta at your LGS? Hopefully diverse? And what kind of deck do you play?
April 28, 2017 12:03 a.m.
Bulldawg1310 says... #9
I have an aggro b/g elves (very similar to yours.) i have an aggro zoo deck i havent played with yet, and ive been using eldrazi tron. My meta is mostly eldrazi tron, one elves, one merfolk, a ponza LD and whole lotta valakut. Atleast 6 of 22-25 decks are valakut.
April 28, 2017 12:07 a.m.
Oh, have you seen my elves build? And ah I see. I'm not a big fan of playing against eldrazi tron! It's very strong haha, and very hard for storm to play against which is what I play for FNM right now.
April 28, 2017 12:10 a.m.
its actually improper game play. The opponent was making moves and decisions before it was even his turn. All decks need to be shuffled and each player given the opportunity to cut their opponents deck. Then the person who goes first decides if they are going to muligan or not. Then the other player decides if they are going to muligan or not. Then after each player decides to keep their hands, they scry. Then the first turn starts.
I would of asked for a judge to come and explain the rules to the other person. I would not of tried to explain what they were doing wrong as you said you didn't know them.
Its not generally a big deal, but I know some people play this fast so that they can get people who don't know better to "miss" opportunities to respond. You always get an opportunity to respond, and the fact that the other player was already attacking before you had the chance to finish shuffling means that either he doesn't know the rules, is trying to cheat, or is a person that just don't care.
I have dealt with all 3. Calling a judge over to report someone not giving you the time to set up for the game, or not allowing you time to respond is the correct call. The judge should after hearing about the situation should inform players of the rules and how to remedy the situation.
Even if you turn out to be in the wrong, getting a judge to make a ruling on something you think is wrong or not being done correctly makes it so the judge can get information to the players. Whether its rules or card interactions.
April 28, 2017 12:11 a.m.
Bulldawg1310 says... #12
My eldrazi tron doesnt do very well, im not sure why. Its supposed to have a 65-70% win ratio, mines at like 25-30. Tonight i lost to grixis delver, valakut, and that aggro zoo jackass. Last week i lost to valakut, merfolk, and beat grixis delver and grixis control.
April 28, 2017 12:14 a.m.
Well, there's always potential that you're not countering your meta enough. You should try and target certain decks that hurt you with sideboard hate and ignore the ones that seem to have no effect.
However it could also be bad luck.
April 28, 2017 12:17 a.m.
Bulldawg1310 says... #14
pskinn01 i hear ya, lesson learned. Bottom line, he woulda won either way, my deck was just too slow, its the first time ive seen him at the shop. I shoulda called a judge but neither of us were in a position to top8 so i figured, fuck it. Lets just end it. But i shouldve called a judge.
April 28, 2017 12:18 a.m.
Bulldawg1310 says... #15
icehit6 its bad luck on top of not being able to afford the proper sideboard cards yet. The other tron decks seem to do quite well. Which is why i built it in the first place, hence the title 'cant beat em, join em'
April 28, 2017 12:22 a.m.
Makes sense! It is quite surprising sometimes what a good sideboard does :P
April 28, 2017 12:33 a.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #17
Call a judge. What he's doing is 100% illegal. You have the right to manipulate your opponent's deck before they draw their hand, and nobody should cast a spell before both players decide mulligans.
On another note, why is this called RTFC? That means "read the f*cking card".
April 28, 2017 9:58 a.m.
Bulldawg1310 says... #18
SwaggyMcSwagglepants i named it RTFC, because in my experience, its common courtesy to atleast give the name of the card youre playing, not necessarily to read all the effects, but a simple "crack fetch, Sacred Foundry, Goblin Guide, attack, attack trigger. Is how that exchange should have gone. That with irony of my inability to RTFC because his cards were foreign, added to the humor.
April 28, 2017 11:35 a.m.
So like what others said what the opponent did was illegal in terms of competitive play. You are supposed to resolve all Mulligans before a game starts. Sadly there are some spike players (not all just a small handful) that will see a new player and play super fast to try intimidating them into sloppy play which in my mind is super scummy on its own. I've lucked out where I only encountered it once or twice at a spot I used to play at but going to larger events like GPs I've managed to avoid those kinds.
The best thing to do is usually call a judge for your specific scenario because he was performing illegal actions especially since that can influence your Mulligan as well. If it is an issue of excessively fast play you should just ask the guy to slow it down a bit and if he scoffs and keeps going then look into getting a judge involved.
April 28, 2017 5:46 p.m.
Yeah, unfortunately learning how to handle obnoxious personalities is part of playing Magic sometimes. On one of my first FMN's I had a experienced player ask me between matches if it was okay that he pulled his sideboard from his entire collection. Me trying to be nice and not really knowing the rules of the game I agreed to it. Next thing I know my blue red flashback deck is completely useless against all the protection from Red guys he sided in. Yours - like mine was - is an unfortunate learning experience
icehit6 says... #2
I have had a player like this before, and I as well have been a player like this before. I generally only do it to people I know are pricks, but nonetheless, this is how you deal with it.
If you want to shuffle his deck, or cut his deck, you're obligated to do so. Speak up.
If you don't know what a foreign card to you does, you can require your opponent to bring the card up in a language you can understand to see how it works.
If you have a question about anything that is public information during the game, such as cards in hand, mana floating, what a card does, what he has in his graveyard, or even how something is played out, he is required to answer. Or at least allow you to figure it out yourself. If he doesn't, well, he can be disqualified from the game. Pretty simple.
On another note, I had a guy try and disqualify me from a match because he was running goblins against my elves, half read what Burrenton Forge-Tender did, and when he said, "Does it have protection from red?" I answered honestly and said yes. I didn't say anything about the sac effect the card has, and when I used it on Anger of the Gods he had a hissy fit and called the judge over. Judge was on my side, I'm not required to say any information unless asked, and because the guy kept complaining, I got a free match win.
Things like that are only a problem if you make it a problem in my opinion. But if he is doing things like starting the game before you've decided to mulligan or keep, I see that as an issue and would call a judge over to resolve it if he doesn't respond to you.
April 27, 2017 11:27 p.m.