No More Modern Pro Tours
Modern forum
Posted on April 24, 2016, 8:40 a.m. by CheeseBro
Its true. Wizards has announced that they will no longer hold Modern pro tours. only Standard ones.
This seems reasonable. Might reduce the incentive to "rotate" the format every so often with poorly reasoned bans. I'm happy.
April 24, 2016 9:07 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #5
Maybe it means they will stop micromanaging modern :)
April 24, 2016 9:09 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #6
I mean, the PT is now entirely unwatchable, but at least the format will become less volatile.
April 24, 2016 9:12 a.m.
I'm particularly interested in a comment made in the accompanying article about the vision for modern. Aaron said:
"Modern should: ... Consist of cards that we are willing and able to reprint"
That to me is a pretty fascinating comment because, from my perspective, he is either saying that (for example) Snapcaster Mage is suitable for standard (at some point in the future, if the set is right) OR he's saying that Snapcaster Mage isn't suitable for Modern. I've just picked on one example, the same could be said for Tarmogoyf etc.
He further elaborated that Standard is the only way for new cards to enter Modern so you have to take the previous comment at face value. It's either a pretty stark indication of many cards reprint possibility, or banning possibility.
April 24, 2016 9:15 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #8
Yes, I just noticed that as well. There's strong emphasis on the fact that they want to reprint cards, which must mean that some cool things are lined up down the pipe. Plus without the modern PT, reprints like that will be one of the biggest ways they can support the format. I'm very much for this decision.
April 24, 2016 9:21 a.m.
ChiefBell, I agree. That's a very interesting statement. My question, though, why would a reprint of Snapcaster Mage (or any other modern staple) be more likely with a stop put to Modern pro tours? Are we expecting this to effect Modern prices at all?
April 24, 2016 9:22 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #10
So imagine that modern is now what legacy was 3 years ago when SCG was in 100% support of it. Mad number of events going on, prices fairly stable, except now we can get our important cards reprinted at literally any time to allow more players to enter the format. I can see modern being less pushed, which means that prices should normalize back down to around what they were a year ago (emphasis on should), and the format will still be extremely healthy as there's still going to be big events for it, GPs, IQs, PreTQs, FNM. Modern isn't going anywhere, it's just being tamed a bit.
April 24, 2016 9:28 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #11
If it helps get Counterspell and Fact or Fiction into the format, I don't care at all about no more PT.
April 24, 2016 10:16 a.m.
So let me get this straight. They made this change because the PT forces them to change the format once in a while to make it better as a viewing experience? Or is there another reason?
April 24, 2016 10:36 a.m.
It means that Standard prices are probably going to skyrocket, because all the "pros" will be focusing on that format now. With no real prize support, why would anyone play Modern? Economically, I am not all that happy with it. It just made a lot of my cards I am looking for a lot harder to find within my budget, because my older cards are going to lose value, and anything I want for Standard will be too high to get a hold of.
April 24, 2016 10:42 a.m.
If this change means no more unnecessary bans like Splinter Twin ban, I'm all for it.
April 24, 2016 10:58 a.m.
DrLitebur - There will still be many, many modern events with ample prize supports. PT's don't even necessarily have the best support.
April 24, 2016 11:14 a.m.
ChiefBell: Possibly, but honestly, if they are not recognized by the "authority", they will lose their steam and their merit. In a year, maybe two, they will lose all real backing.
April 24, 2016 11:33 a.m.
Ok, so we should be looking at price drops in modern. If t goes back to a year ago, thing like Snapcaster Mage and Voice of Resurgence will be affordable again. That's cool. Unless you invested in them as an investment.
Will this really make it more likely to get things like Counterspell printed again? I understand the idea that Stabdard is the only way to insert things into the Modern pool, but would modern being a non-spotlight format be a reason to insert powerful things that are seen as too strong for it as it is? I'm asking this as a legitimate question, not as a contradiction to the saying that it might.
April 24, 2016 11:38 a.m.
I can not see the Modern format going away. I think the more likely scenario is the staunch backing of Stabdard can backfire and WotC may run back to Modern saying "I'm sorry. Please take us back."
April 24, 2016 11:39 a.m.
This wont affect modern's prices. This is just because it wont lead to people selling their cards. No supply increase and no change to immediate demand. Just because there wont be increased demand in the future doesn't mean anything necessarily changes right now.
April 24, 2016 11:42 a.m.
ChiefBell: im making a gravestone for Modern Pro Tour. Any ideas for the text?
April 24, 2016 11:59 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #24
They already unbanned the two cards most likely to come off the banlist.
April 24, 2016 12:20 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #25
I agree with all of these changes! I'm super hyped to see pro tours in different countries -- even if I don't play Standard -- and it seems like they're doing the right thing to keep Modern healthy. Also very interested to see what reprints are lined up for Modern. (cough Counterspell cough)
April 24, 2016 12:33 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ - they did, but the players had a minor riot. It was also before they announced the change to the block structure, which would've made the change to all Standard Pro Tours a more logical.
April 24, 2016 1:38 p.m.
Troy242621 says... #28
I'm a new player, pardon my ignorance because I'm not trying to incite anything.
Having said that, is this an indication that they're giving up on the format? Are card values going to plummet? Is it a bad time to be buying in?
April 24, 2016 1:56 p.m.
logansullivan says... #30
well with eternal masters coming out and now this news I might use this opportunity to get rid of my modern deck and get into legacy since there's a pretty big contingent of legacy players in my area and there's a weekly tournament at the lgs I go to.
April 24, 2016 4:08 p.m.
IvoryFrost says... #31
So...will we be seeing modern masters 3 set in the future or naw?
April 24, 2016 5:24 p.m.
Spencerbot15 says... #32
The last time this happened, the community outraged. If we do that again, we can pray that they will reverse their decision.
April 24, 2016 5:57 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #33
Well yay? I think? I've started to grow increasingly concerned with Modern's reprint problem. That is to say, the severe lack of said reprints. Will this help? I doubt it. But, at least there will be less of a forced rotaion now.
April 24, 2016 7:06 p.m.
Harashiohorn says... #34
Ugggggg... I'm honestly not sure whether I'm happy about this or if this is the last straw. I'd start by stating WOTC has continued its ABYSMAL methodology of dealing with the modern playerbase over the past six months, there honestly wasn't much of a need to drop this now of all times just after the format is attempting to recover from the traumatic experience that was the Eldrazi Winter. I think, though, in the grand scheme this is a misplay by WOTC. That's because they are consciously moving away from a diversified game in the name of the best profit margin. I understand and respect that they are ultimately a company who needs to make money, but I hate playing/don't want to watch standard (Which is a different conversation), and now there is less drawing me into the eternal formats. I feel like in the long run modern is getting shipped down the road to legacy's issues of a limited playerbase. I suppose my primary problem is that WOTC is making a pivot away from the eternal formats, whether they intend to or not, and I feel like that will ultimately have a negative effect on player retention.
The big question now that WOTC desperately needs to address is "What is your vision for the role of eternal formats?" Sure they said they wan't modern to be fun and all that crap, but that's not really the question. The question is are the eternal formats going to be a relevant part of magic? This macro-set there were 9 modern Grand Prix's, and only 3 legacy ones out of the 40 total. That's only about 30% of all grand prixs and that's in a year that still had a Modern pro tour. At a certain point it just feels like we the players a paying a lot of money for cards we won't even be able to play with. We aren't at that point now, but this really isn't an encouraging sign.
April 24, 2016 7:59 p.m.
Dumeeperninja says... #35
Am I missing something? It says the first pro tour of 2018 will be modern.
April 24, 2016 8:22 p.m.
Spencerbot15 - Except the previous announcement was on the heels of the Mono-Black Devotion metagame that players hated, unless your name was Owen Turtenwald. At the time it seemed like 4 Standard PTs would just be the same decks over and over again. Now with the new Block Structure and a faster rotating Standard it makes more sense to have every PT be Standard.
And even after the Metamorphosis article by Mark Rosewater, players were saying, "Oh the change to all Standard PTs makes more sense now." Plus with the Modern playerbase being upset at the annual B&R changes to shake up the PT Wizards was really given only two options. 1) Keep the Modern PT and annual B&R changes or 2) Remove the Modern PT and do B&R changes only when needed. And I feel like given the two, the second option is more preferable to the majority of Modern players. Because the unstated third choice of "Keep the Modern PT but only ban as needed" doesn't create the experience they want people to see at the PT.
Dumeeperninja - That'd be a miracle since they've only announced the PTs through 2017 here and they certainly wouldn't have announced formats for PTs past then.
April 24, 2016 8:24 p.m.
I have seen a few people mention that card prices will not plummet after the stopping of the modern PT. How would some of the more expensive cards maintain their prices if there is no PT support and demand?
April 24, 2016 8:24 p.m.
PTsmitty - While there is no Modern PT there are still Modern PPTQs and Modern GPs. Not to mention the many FNMs that are no doubt going to take place with the Modern format. And that's ignoring the SCG/TCG circuit with the Modern Classics/Opens.
As an an aside, everyone should read Aaron Forsythe's statement about what they want from Modern going forward and more reasons why it will no longer be a PT format.
April 24, 2016 8:27 p.m.
Sceadugenga says... #39
I"m very ok with this move. I think its smart for WOTC to respond to the issues it sees as they arise, and setting up Modern so that WOTC can support it through standard seems sensible if that's how they want to invest their efforts. Assuming that WOTC can in fact create a Modern environment where they can (re)print powerful playable cards for both Standard and Modern, then they'll get their standard players and keep the Modern playerbase satisfied (with the additional upside for the reprinting staples option of cutting out the secondary market. Why buy Counterspells from the secondary market when they're printed at uncommon in packs, for example).
April 24, 2016 8:50 p.m.
I still don't understand why removing the Modern PT will create an environment where playable Modern staples will see Standard reprints.
It's literally saying, for example, "Now we can reprint Snapcaster Mage because Modern doesn't have a pro tour!" That makes little sense to me.
Is it assuming what people play in Modern won't generate such issues anymore because the Pro Tour isn't involved ?
April 24, 2016 9:18 p.m.
capriom85, I don't think the belief is that removing the Modern PT increases their ability to reprint modern staples. I think what people are latching on to is a specific phrase in Aaron Forsythe's explanation of the reason behind the change (which others have posted, but can be found here). He says modern should, in the eyes of Wizards, "Consist of cards that we are willing and able to reprint."
People are seeing that statement and hoping it means more reprints of modern staples... I think.
April 24, 2016 9:37 p.m.
I understand that part, saj0219. Thanks for the link! I'm just looking for the logical reason behind it from any side of the equation. I guess I'm after the why of the idea. Why is it safe to reprint certain things when Modern is NOT part of the Pro Tour process? Why was it NOT cool to reprint things before this change?
I understand it's about pleasing the investors to some point. Johnny spent $500+ on his Tarmogoyf playset before this change, which is why only a limited run like MOdern Masters made sense for reprints. It wouldn't be fair to reprint Gouf in SOI (aside from they aren't on Innistrad) and let Johnny Jr get his playset for $25-$50 apiece. With Lro Tour off the table is it a mentality of "fuck the investors" now, or is there solid logic to "We can print staples outside of a pro tour environment"?
April 24, 2016 9:49 p.m.
I don't think they're connected beyond the fact that they're both related to what Wizards perceives modern to be about. The key is in the headline of Aaron's article: "Where does Modern go from here." Lost in all of our discussion is that his article is really about Wizards' vision for modern and not just the removal of modern from the pro tour. In laying out why modern is a bad fit for pro tour, he bumps into what Wizards thinks modern is about (and that's where the reprint thing comes in). I'm sure the part about their vision is there because they know modern players have had a rough year with their format...
tl;dr I don't think they're directly connected, I just think they're both mentioned in the same place.
April 24, 2016 10:26 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #44
You know the more I look at this statement, with regard to WotC's vision of Modern the more I become disheartened. Why can WotC not just come out and say what they want in clear, concise terms. Why do they always have vague phrasing and evasive language?
April 24, 2016 11:02 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #45
I'd rather watch a modern pt, than a standard pro tour. Just sayin. Modern is a developed format that, with set releases, can make decks better or create new decks to combat the current meta. Standard is like watching a dude trying to pick up girls at a bar, amusing at first, but then just pathetic after a while.
April 25, 2016 12:43 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #46
CanadianShinobi because if they did, then we'd all have a lot more sound and undeniable proof that they're doing a bad job.
Here's what I posted in the modern chat about this:
I guess WOTC took the approach to policy change of 'if you do a job badly enough, you won't get asked to do it again'. In this case, they screwed up the modern pro tour badly enough that they won't get asked to do another one again.
For a few weeks there, I was actually beginning to think that WOTC was doing some good with the game with SOI and EMA, but now I'm beginning to hate them again. I don't mind that they're not doing modern Pro Tours anymore, since it's definitely better for the health of the format that those Dingus Eggs spend less time screwing the format, but I do mind that the reason I don't care that there aren't any more modern PTs is because WOTC screwed up so badly with the last PT. PT's, for me and I think for most players, are supposed to be a great time to watch the best pros play a format we love at the most competitive level possible, and it's truly sad that we're losing the modern PT because WOTC lost sight of that.
If you can't tell, I'm not in a very good mood with WOTC right now. To be perfectly frank, Standard is a waste of my money and, in my opinion as someone who is getting into proxied legacy, boring magic. I know that removing the PT doesn't mean that they're not supporting modern, but it makes the format 1 step closer to Legacy, and by that I mean having potential to be one of the most interesting and competitive formats to both play and watch, yet hindered by lack of support.
Given Aaron's reprint statement, either we're in for modern being a more accessible format, or we're in for another big disappointment, and given WOTC's record, the latter wouldn't surprise me.
On the plus side, Konami finally took Thousand Eyes Restrict off the banlist. This officially means that for me, WOTC has fallen below Konami in terms of TCG management, which is pathetic.
Edit: UpperDeckerTaco that analogy of Standard is hilarious and scarily accurate. Well said.
April 25, 2016 1 a.m. Edited.
Guys, it's OK if you don't like Standard. If you don't like Standard, you don't have to watch it. However the Pro Tours are there to test the professional Magic players to their limits in both Draft and Standard. The goal of Standard is to be a rotating format that pushes different themes and requires different tools to "solve". You're allowed to not like Standard, just as Standard players are allowed to not like Modern/Legacy/Commander/etc. Can we keep our Salt out of "Standard sucks"?
April 25, 2016 1:10 a.m.
NapoleonBonaparte says... #48
As to the whole "willing and able to reprint" thing and people wondering why it is now safe to reprint powerful cards, such as Counterspell or something, I believe that Wotc thinks that since less pros will be devoted to brewing around and play testing in modern, then broken decks will not emerge quickly or even at all! For example, with the Eldrazi deck, if there wasn't a pro tour and the pros weren't devoted to brewing in modern then maybe the broken eldrazi deck may not have been created and Eye of Ugin may not have been banned.This creates less banning and only seriously necessary banning in modern. This i why i believe that statement was made in the article. I forsee a fun and exciting future for modern!
April 25, 2016 1:14 a.m.
hwagner, I have to disagree with you to an extent. After all, is there none of us who want to try and risk something that 1) shakes up the meta (like how Eldrazi did during the bigger scenes) and 2) dominate and win (who doesn't like that feeling?). Unfortunately, I hate to do this but go back and remind that a lot of us had always saw Eldrazi as a T2 if not casual decks, until BFZ and OGW came out and supplemented them into a T1 deck, which unfortunately was aggressive enough that people played lots of variants of it, if not keeping the same Eldrazi core shell. I am a R/G Tron player and my match-up with them is decent with no disadvantage (except racing the damage clock or recuperating from an Eldrazi godhand).
On a different note, I too would hope for a more fun modern (more cards to brew with, cause that's the Brewer in me) and like to see more diversity in decks but I feel that unless they do something to change the over meta or Modern game, it will still be the same old "I gotta build a faster and consistent deck that hits them hard into the dust".
Rasta_Viking29 says... #2
This is good news for Magic overall and Modern should end up better format because of it. Hopefully WotC can withstand the initial backlash this time.
April 24, 2016 8:50 a.m.