New type of tron?
Modern forum
Posted on July 23, 2016, 10:07 p.m. by magicarp03
So, I had an idea when I started watching Travis Woo's mono-black tron. "maybe you can combine the slower tron decks (U-tron and B-tron) into an interesting new subtype. Anyone got any ideas about this?
ducttapedeckbox says... #3
U-Tron is a deck of its own, kanokarob. While it's not in the top tier of Modern decks, it can be considered a low- to mid-tier deck.
U-Tron is already a tight list (very few flex spots) without putting up the best results. The major problem is the aggressive meta, and adding black to the mix doesn't address that.
July 23, 2016 11:09 p.m.
Yes, it's a deck. My point is it's not any kind of superior or alternative to RG Tron and in fact can't be, barring another planeshift set that gives U really solid ramp. You can call it low/mid-tier all you like, given the choice between it and RG, from a pure viability position, you should go RG.
All of the colors of Tron are all Tron deck - they differ in color and in some wincons, but maintain the same concept and playstyle - and among them, there is a superior that simply won't be overtaken without intentional wizardly intervention. It isn't the nature of modern to makeover deck styles, just create new ones and kill obsolete ones.
July 23, 2016 11:25 p.m.
I'm trying to work with a black/colourless tron deck with the new EMN Emerge creatures and the Eternal Scourge It's a mix of black control with the fatties of the Eldrazi. I've yet to get all the cards to play with it but I think Distended Mindbender coming down usually turn 4 to turn 5 is quite significant against any non-aggro deck. I still need to shore up the aggro matchup I admit.
July 24, 2016 3:05 a.m.
kanokarob - Right, but youre just being unhelpful and a dick because at no point did anyone claim it would be superior to G Tron. The words used were "interesting" and "alternative", not "better". Also calling U Tron not even "viable" is absolutely ridiculous. Viable just means "capable of working successfully". U Tron works successfully in certain metas, against certain decks - like all tier 2 modern decks do. It's great some of the time, but not all of the time.
Don't come into threads and start flaming people based on strawman arguments. It is a viable alternative, it's not superior. Also saying the various Tron decks have the same playstyle contradicts any kind of authority you purported to have on the subject.
July 24, 2016 5:27 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #7
Colorless Eldrazi Tron is another deck that people are having success with in leagues. It's not really a tron deck so much as a deck that has the lands in it, but it's still an option. I've never been a fan of black tron decks because even though the disruption helps the plan, there isn't much or any solid payoff that black can offer with any reliability. Playing a UB control list with the lands in it in like an artifact based shell may be the way that that build would have to go, and at that point i'd just say play tezzerator.
July 24, 2016 9:27 a.m.
Flaming would be using ad hominem attacks like "dick." I wasn't sugercoating, sure, but I was being explanatory and realistic.
I will admit that I jumped the gun in assuming OP wanted discussion on whether UB Tron could become as powerful or moreso than the reigning RG Tron, but it was unecessary to pull out poor argumentative skills to point this out to me. A simple "The question is do you think it would be interesting." would have sufficed and indeed, been much more efficient.
I don't have to explain my credibility, so I won't, but I will be very clear: Tron decks do have the same general concept, being work to reach Tron, medium-large spells to maintain your own board presence or stifle the opponent's, then optionally play 1-2 very large things to steal the win. Different colors have some different cards to use in steps 2-3, and G has access to more cards for step 1, but they are the same core concept of ramping for the sake of ramping.
July 24, 2016 10:38 a.m.
magicarp03 says... #10
Anyways, the reason I think this could be an okay deck is because both B-tron and U-tron dont really try to assemble tron, that's just an added bonus, and discard instead of countering just seems better to me. Maybe i'm just being dumb, I thought it was a cool idea.
July 24, 2016 12:37 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #11
Tezzerator is an artifact-centered deck that uses Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas and the recently unbanned Sword of the Meek + Thopter Foundry interaction.
It's an expensive deck. Here is a list from CFB from a couple months back.
July 24, 2016 12:39 p.m.
magicarp03 says... #12
Jesus, that is expensive! I do see your point though, devoid.
July 24, 2016 12:49 p.m.
Well I do apologize, there was no intention of superiority. I was only meaning to be concise and straightforward.
And looking back, nothing I said was mean or hateful - I didn't say anything rude about people who play those decks or put down the decks themselves - they were just facts related to their effectiveness. Cold, yes, but not cruel. And for most of those facts, I dislike them. It'd be wonderful if Modern was more competitively accepting of alternative strategies, I still keep my Sliver Fateseal deck around because it's fun and original, but I also understand that Modern isn't the sort of format that likes new things, with little exception. I played U-Tron before RG and had fun, but although I was annoyed that it couldn't be as effective as RG, I accepted that and upgraded over.
July 24, 2016 12:58 p.m.
Dredge4life says... #14
As an in-love U Tron player, one of the first things you need to accept is that it will take a WotC miracle to make it as powerful/effective as RG. That being said, U Tron does very well against Jund, which is the flagship deck in modern imo. This U/B deck sounds super cool, if you ever build it please link it in this thread.
July 24, 2016 11:58 p.m.
Tron is an evil and forsaken deck, the presence of which destroys the souls of men.
Don't be that guy.
July 25, 2016 10:41 a.m. Edited.
IzzetFanatic says... #17
@Dredge4life, and everyone else: I agree Mono U Tron is good against all slower deck and with the addition of Spatial Contortion, the deck has become a lot more interactive with aggressive strategies. It is most definitly good against Jund and all midrange decks and with Chalice of the Void it becomes a lot better against fast decks.
@magicarp03: While I like the idea of going with a UB variant, I feel as if it would take a bit to figure out what cards you could drop for the black. As said before there are very little flex spots in the deck so it would be a struggle to figure it out. Some versions do run a one of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth as it increases the amount of lands you can destroy with Sundering Titan if they aren't already running black. It also makes it more viable to play Surgical Extraction in the SB and it makes it easier to play Dismember in the main. This being said, you can run any of the Phyrexian Black cards in the deck with out the Tomb. If you get a draft version if this deck up I'd love to take a look at it and help out with it. For reference my deck is If you hate people... Play this deck.
@TMBRLZ: are you sure you aren't just saying that because you play Jund? jk fam.
@kanokarob: It's ok to state what you think about RG Tron and if everyone else here would step back a bit and realize that he was just stating what he thought and adding some advise to the creator of this thread about what deck he felt would be a better choice the tone of this thread would be a lot nicer. Your fine mate just think about how the creator of this thread was asking for some advise on making a deck of his own creation not trying to prove that it would be any better than RG Tron. There are arguments for both side on why one is better than the other however that is not the subject of this thread. Thanks mate.
July 25, 2016 12:39 p.m.
IzzetFanatic - Lol if I could afford Jund I wouldn't be spending that money on Magic. :P
I just personally don't like Tron. It's a cruel deck and doesn't really interact (says the player who likes to build really janky infinite combo decks). But it's just a huge nuance in Modern. RG Tron is the 125% luck 75% skill deck that likes to natural Tron turn 3 and just play a bunch of Ugins and Karns and watch you cry a little.
And getting Mindslaver locked is an awful experience.
Not that I don't support magicarp03 seeking out new angles. I think a 
Tron would be interesting if properly built. As much as I support the brewer, I also have seen enough Modern to know that Tron has been kind of figured out, so it won't be an easy journey to break the meta with a new archetype. But more power to the brewers. I like fresh changes. I just don't like oppressive ones. Which is why Tron and Bant Company (Standard) are bad decks in my book.
July 25, 2016 1:47 p.m.
All decks in modern are fairly dependent on opening hands.
July 25, 2016 1:59 p.m.
And most Modern decks do require a fairly balanced level of skill on top of luck to pilot well. It's awesome to open natural tron, but when you don't you need to be able to know when to crack your eggs for Scryings or Stirrings and when to just use a map, then once you get Tron, knowing what/when to Karn or what have you isn't always obvious.
Similar examples can be made for most of the top Modern decks, from my observations.
July 25, 2016 2:18 p.m.
Also when to + karn and when to - karn is actually not always obvious.
July 25, 2016 3:15 p.m.
Maybe I'm just tainted because the one consistent and devoted RG Tron player at our LGS is typically x-1 or x-0.
And it's not that we lack any Jund (there's approximately 2-3 Jund decks per modern tournament on average).
July 25, 2016 3:51 p.m. Edited.
ducttapedeckbox says... #24
I don't mean to offend anyone or anything, but I was browsing Cardboard Crack and found this...
July 25, 2016 4:39 p.m.
IzzetFanatic says... #25
@ducttapedeckbox: I love you so much. Best Cardboard Crack ever.
July 25, 2016 4:45 p.m.
Dredge4life says... #26
Jund has a terrible matchup to Tron. We have better topdecks that they can't deal with.
July 25, 2016 4:54 p.m.
magicarp03 says... #27
I'm pretty sure Karn Liberated Is gonna get banned soon. They banned Splinter Twin, so who knows?
July 25, 2016 5:12 p.m.
Yeah but karn and twin are like a million miles apart.
July 25, 2016 5:23 p.m.
There's no reason to ban Karn Liberated though. It isn't game breaking or oppressing the format. He can't be reliably cast until turn 3 and isn't impossible to deal with.
In the last 2 months, only 33 of 496 registered Top 8 decks at live tournaments were R/G Tron decks. That's 7% of the meta and while it may be the most common "control" (term used loosely) deck in the format, it still isn't enough to warrant it banning Karn Liberated.
Keep in mind for the ban announcement last week they literally didn't change anything because all the common winning decks in the format right now (Zoo, Infect, Affinity, Jund, Nahiri Control, Tron, and recently more Dredge) don't stand out as unstoppable. Every deck has a legitimate bad matchup and has legitimate cards and tactics that can be used to interrupt their groove train.
The meta is more diverse right now than it has been in a while. And while Jund seems to be superior in the rankings, it's hefty price tag is a good deterrent to having it overwhelm the format. You'll get a good variance of matches on Open and GP cams to watch and no deck is guaranteed victory all the way through. Jund's most redeeming quality is that it's versatile and can hold it's ground much better against MOST of the decks out there. Obviously Tron laughs in Jund's face, and Tron is common enough in it's own right.
Sorry for the rant. Just trying to emphasize the perspective you got to hold the meta from. If Tron is a monster in your local scene, don't let that confuse your view of how it affects everywhere. Meta changes from town to town, and state to state, and nation to nation. Use the online numbers to make your judgments about the format as a whole, and don't let the MTGO dailies affect those judgments (like I used to).
July 25, 2016 5:37 p.m.
And also what ChiefBell said.
Resolving Splinter Twin means the game ends. Resolving Karn Liberated means the game just got a lot more annoying.
July 25, 2016 5:38 p.m.
magicarp03 says... #31
In my meta, there is a R/G tron player, a U-tron player, and a R/G eldrazi tron player regularly at fnm
July 25, 2016 5:43 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #33
Modern Nexus says Infect is the 3rs most played deck at 6.3%
August 1, 2016 10:01 p.m. Edited.
Harashiohorn says... #34
Soo U/B Tron has been a deck previously, a long long long time ago in a different kind of meta where you could run Chrome Mox. Here is an article from SCG from 2012 that covers all of the U/X variants you saw at the time: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/modern/23734-Modern-Tron-Primer.html Generally these decks are most similar to todays Gift-Tron decks. Their primary problem is that they have poor aggro-matchups and recent sets have not significantly improved blue and blacks mass removal suites. SO the point of all this is to say, U/B and U/X tron decks aren't new per-say, they can dominate formats that are control, combo, and attrition heavy but fold to aggro decks, which make up a massive swath of moderns meta nowadays. Hence, U/B tron is not very popular.
August 4, 2016 8:20 p.m.
Man! My buddy put together what had to be the craziest Tron deck I'd ever seen.
Urza's Omens [Modern Prismatic Tron]
The deck was super powerful and worked pretty well for my friend even in the brunt of Eldrazi winter.
It worked by incrementally assembling a number of powerful game plans all at the same time. You had the Prismatic Omen and Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle plan. The Primeval Titan and Kessig Wolf Run plan. Eye of Ugin and the big Titans. Take away the Eye for Titans and you're literally left with bad Titanshift.
Anyway, I just had to reminisce but if anything the deck showed me that you can do crazy things with Tron and there's plenty of innovation to be done with Tron.
Come on!!! Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle? In a Tron deck?
kanokarob says... #2
Nongreen Tron will never be viable. Even RG Tron more or less just splashes R. Trying to add U and/or B in there, with or without G, will either have no effect or contaminate the brew too much.
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger was pretty much the biggest change to happen to the competitive Tron group in years. Eye of Ugin ban doesn't necessarily count there, as while it was inconvenient, it still didn't change the core concept. With little exception, members of a deck type don't usurp their best iteration without a ban killing it.
July 23, 2016 10:46 p.m.