Modern Players Guide to the New Meta
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 6, 2016, 7:09 p.m. by DrFunk27
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Eldrazi is taking over. Aggro is close behind. 6 of the top 8 decks are some form of eldrazi. Turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer is real and it's destroying everything in it's path. I'm worried.
How do we stop these decks? Pro Tour has showed us they will not stop and it's quickly cementing itself as a tier 1 archetype. This thread is devoted to helping each other find ways to answer, cope and deal with the shifting meta game.
The first question we need to address is answering eldrazi. I'm thinking Path to Exile Thoughtseize Despise are incredibly relevant for most decks now. What else can we use to help with this matchup? Thoughts and suggestions are welcome!
Eldrazi are here. The struggle is real.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #3
It feels like the plane of Earth just became the plane of Zendikar. And well, the outlook feels bleak.
February 6, 2016 7:15 p.m. Edited.
GreenGhost says... #5
Aside from the obvious Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Fulminator Mage, Crumble to Dust, Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge not much.
February 6, 2016 7:29 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #6
Do you mean the colorless side?
Because that's the whole format.
February 6, 2016 7:30 p.m.
The big thing to remember is that the players on Eldrazi broke the metagame for this tournament. Remember the UR Thopters deck from PT Origins? How well did it do afterwards? Not as well as it did during that tournament.
Now, there are huge distinctions from Standard & Modern no doubt, but players need to adjust and figure out what the best lines of play are against the deck.
February 6, 2016 7:31 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #8
I mean, if the choice is honestly Affinity, Infect, Death's Aggro, or Eldrazi... I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to say that Modern is at the very least having serious stomach cramps. God I miss Twin already.
Here's the problem:
Removal is hard because of Reality Smasher and Thought-Knot Seer. It's just very disruptive, and Abrupt Decay does pretty much nothing against the big boys.
LD is way to slow and doesn't even stop them that bad. GQ is really the only playable piece I can think of, and then again, it's colorless and still only backs them down a turn.
Discard is playable, but Inquisition of Kozilek doesn't hit the biggeys. Though it is better against the UR version, I suppose.
It's looking like racing them is the best way to go. They have the inevitability factor of Tron and the constant pressure and interaction of Jund. At this point, the choice seems to be Aggro or Eldrazi, something that the tournament reflects. So much for making the meta more nebulous. Any combo deck like Through the Breach was crushed, and Control was nowhere to be seen.
February 6, 2016 7:37 p.m. Edited.
It's just not even worth watching the finals now... Everyone in it is just a big advertisement for Oath. sigh...
February 6, 2016 7:40 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #10
In my experience, discard is the strongest tool against the deck. Liliana of the Veil is really strong.
Game 2, it's good to bring in a Creeping Corrosion or 2. Yes, it'll miss their creatures, but nails the Chalice of the Voids and Ratchet Bombs and other nonsense they'll side in.
February 6, 2016 7:45 p.m. Edited.
BoCaliv - Except that's the purpose of the PT. To get people excited about the new cards.
February 6, 2016 7:45 p.m.
Harashiohorn says... #12
What to do about Modern Shops? Play highly resilient decks. Now is a good opportunity to dust off decks like B/W Tokens, whose win-cons were too anemic for a Twin meta, but who can survive an opponent dumping their hand very quickly, and grind very effectively. Also, all in combo decks will be good, since they don't even have to worry about Remand anymore. The key weakness of the Eldrazi deck is that it's only unfair angle is early mana, if you can survive that, it doesn't have a clear advantage.
February 6, 2016 7:46 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #13
Harashiohorn Try grinding tokens against a Reality Smasher or two, it doesn't work so hot.
It's true that the only "unfair" part of the deck is early meta. I mean, that's basically Tron. But this deck comes with pressure early in the game and actual interaction, all while having a more stable mana base. And Tron is also a terrible matchup for grindy decks such as Tokens or Jund/k, similarly, Eldrazi probably is too. Or at least the colorless/Mono-Black versions of it.
February 6, 2016 7:47 p.m. Edited.
Harashiohorn says... #14
FAMOUSWATERMELON Vault of the Archangel, and cards like it can handle the smasher. You just need to be able to trade resources, a deck like Tokens can, a deck like Jund can't.
February 6, 2016 7:49 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #15
True, but that's one card in the deck, maybe two. I think that Tokens definitely has a better matchup than most decks against Eldrazi, but I wouldn't call it good yet. Especially since they have a bunch of Ratchet Bombs sitting in the side.
February 6, 2016 7:51 p.m.
I'm playing Knightfall and I have no idea how to deal... 4x mb Qasali Pridemage can take care of Chalice, but meanwhile I'd probably be dead already. More Ghost Quarters I guess? Side out the combo because Thought-Knot Seer or no? I don't really wanna splash red for Magus of the Moon either. Maybe a bigger removal spell like Valorous Stance is needed to back up Path?
February 6, 2016 8:08 p.m.
@JWiley129 That's fair and all, but are YOU even excited about these new cards? The art is horrendous with the exception of Koz, and Thought-Knot Seer...maybe, the play-style is boring at best, and seeing 6/8 in the top 8 just makes it even less appealing!
February 6, 2016 8:09 p.m.
logansullivan says... #18
BoCaliv I am actually enjoying watching the eldrazi deck immensely
February 6, 2016 8:12 p.m.
I am excited, b/c the fact these cards dominated a tournament that people expected to be Tier 2 at best. I quite like the art, but different strokes for different folks.
February 6, 2016 8:14 p.m.
GreenGhost says... #20
Hmm seems like eldrazi will make up a large percentage of the meta soon, too large. Time will tell if wizards is willing to put an end to their pet deck by this time next year if it can't be pushed out of the meta.
February 6, 2016 8:15 p.m.
Artistic styles and choices aren't a good way to discuss the strength, excitement or quality of a set. Not only do they fail to affect gameplay, but it's incredibly opinion-based. I, for one, ADORE the art in this set and consider it some of the best I've seen since first playing the game. Perhaps you hate the art. That's fine. But let's stick to the topic at hand, shall we?
February 6, 2016 8:43 p.m.
Great thoughts by everyone. I'm thinking that boardwipes will be extremely important, however you're almost dead by turn 4. I'm honestly at a loss for words on how to deal with these decks. Eldrazi really is breaking the format. It's honestly quite funny considering wizards wanted the exact opposite.
February 6, 2016 8:46 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #24
Anybody think unbanning Splinter Twin is the answer?
February 6, 2016 8:49 p.m.
Player3.14 says... #25
I play 4 color zoo, and am at a complete loss for what to do. I've been sucessful with it so far, but eldrazi is just more efficient in every way. Land destruction is too slow, and a boardwipe would wipe me out just as it would them.
February 6, 2016 8:51 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #26
APPLE01DOJ Yes... and no. Twin would be an effective way of beating Eldrazi, as they can race and disrupt very well. But at the same time, I feel as though that would make the meta Eldrazi VS Twin, and possibly even more sort of one-sided than it is now.
February 6, 2016 8:53 p.m.
Player3.14 says... #27
@APPLE01DOJ: Unbanning Twin would give Eldrazi a truly bad matchup, but having just one deck it's truly bad against wouldn't stop it much, I think. They do run dismember, and it's easy enough to side 4 Torpor Orb. If eldrazi continues to dominate the meta this way, a ban might be the best way to go. Domination of this type hasn't been seen in modern for a while...
February 6, 2016 8:55 p.m.
Personally, no. I don't think Twin is the answer. That's almost like fighting fire with fire. That said, I do think a number of unbannings COULD help things out. If not, though, Eye of Ugin just needs to be gone.
February 6, 2016 8:55 p.m.
Wizard_of_the_Broke says... #29
Side note: Jason Chung's Blue Moon was very good most of the way and nearly made top 8. I believe it also bested Eldrazi in at least one matchup. And that's with the build seemingly not optimized for facing a lot of un-boltable dudes. I think it could take up the Izzet mantle and be decent, at least short term.
February 6, 2016 9:06 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #30
I do believe that more traditional control decks are certainly a good way to combat the Eldrazi decks. Early counterspells and removal can keep them off creatures long enough for the control decks to stabilize. Also the CFB lists don't run processors, so they don't have the trademark cast triggers and instead run ETB triggers.
February 6, 2016 9:08 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #31
Alright, call me crazy, but could reprinting Force of Will work? Think about it: Eldrazi lists can't use it, it makes blue level off with other colors, and it's generally probably not as strong a card than in Legacy, where everyone plays blue. I think it's a calculated risk, but one that could potentially pay off big time.
February 6, 2016 9:12 p.m. Edited.
Tokens actually had a slightly favorable matchup against twin. Eldrazi, on the other hand, is a bit of a nightmare, and I'm still working out how to beat them.
February 6, 2016 9:15 p.m.
logansullivan says... #33
FAMOUSWATERMELON that's a really scary thought, I think that wizards would ban eye before they reprint Force of Will
February 6, 2016 9:21 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #34
@FAMOUSWATERMELON Please no. Force of Will would make blue a necessity. You can tap out for a threat and protect it, or stop your opponents play. It's just too good. I'd rather see Counterspell first.
February 6, 2016 9:26 p.m.
I'm starting by packing 4x Path to Exile and 4x Supreme Verdict in my Esper list. I doubt the Pro Tour results will translate to an LGS meta, but those cards were already good where I play, so it can't hurt.
February 6, 2016 9:30 p.m. Edited.
GlistenerAgent says... #36
Solution: Combo deck. Don't care about Chalice.
You're not going to beat their nut draw, I know. You will beat their average draws.
February 6, 2016 9:32 p.m. Edited.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #37
lemmingllama Would it really though? Blue is inexistant in the meta right now. I don't know, I'll probably make a thread about it later anyways.
February 6, 2016 9:40 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #38
@FAMOUSWATERMELON Delver decks would get a huge boost, and so would the other tempo style decks. Control would also benefit, but I think that tempo would rein supreme.
February 6, 2016 9:47 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #39
Well right now, I wouldn't mind Tempo getting some points in XD I see your point, but I do think that some powerful card reprints could be the solution here.
February 6, 2016 9:48 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #40
I'd probably want Daze over Force of Will if one had to be in Modern. It forces you to run Islands and slows down your progress for the later turns. Also it has little impact in the late game, and an opponent who knows about it can play around it.
February 6, 2016 9:51 p.m.
GreenGhost says... #41
If Ancestral Vision got unbanned it would give control a large boost and also helps to combat the card disadvantage caused by the eldrazis.
February 6, 2016 10:42 p.m. Edited.
Ohthenoises says... #42
Can we seriously STOP with banning talk?
Think about it, what were the last two instances where people were clamoring for a banning? Now remember that along with the cards people WANTED banned that something ELSE got banned.
Inb4 Banned and restricted announcement: eye of Ugin and goyf.
Seriously..... Stop.
Hand hate, (on a larger scale) early removal, and land hate are all great ways of slowing eldrazi down.
Another option is Vampire Hexmage, murdering all your Endless Ones since 2016. (Chalice of the Void too.)
February 6, 2016 10:44 p.m.
You know what a great answer to Ancestral Vision is? Wasteland Strangler ;)
February 6, 2016 10:45 p.m.
logansullivan - My point was more of an Eldrazi card vs a general hate card. But yes, Notion Thief works as well.
February 6, 2016 11:06 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #46
Yeah, vision is not going to work too well... I think we should just hope for some fun toys in coming sets.
February 6, 2016 11:17 p.m.
i see Thoughtseize rising in popularity. Against smasher, all you need is a card with flashback. Then you can path it, and just discard a souls, and cast it for less mana the next turn. Ensnaring Bridge also works with this. By making you discard a card, they decrease their chance of being able to attack. I can see white weenies going up in popularity with all the tribal flying around. Riders of Gavony is an unplayed and op card. Also, there are a few cards that can be cast from exile. These would work great. If they exile them with knot-seer you just cast them again.
February 6, 2016 11:34 p.m.
In B4 Torrent Elemental buyout spike. lol
Seriously though, 4 thoughtseize is going to be a must play now. I also wouldn't mind seeing more Despise played. i like Ensnaring Bridge a lot.
February 7, 2016 12:34 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #49
Some of us never stopped rocking 4x Thoughtseize. I understood the logic but always felt 4x Inquisition of Kozilek and 2x Thoughtseize was just wrong.
February 7, 2016 1:06 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #50
I'm pretty fucking sleepdrunk, but it seems like most people are on the "sky is falling" mentality. You guys are actually really depressing. I seriously don't think this is the end of the world.
GlistenerAgent says... #2
Play Affinity. Affinity is good.
February 6, 2016 7:14 p.m.