Modern Fringe Decks that Deserve to be Viable
Modern forum
Posted on Aug. 16, 2014, 8:12 a.m. by forestlore44
I am quite happy with the diverse meta we have now, but it would be nice if some known Tier 2.5+ decks get some support every now and then. I know WoTC hates the crap out of it, but I would sure like Dredgevine to at least be made viable. What are some fringe decks that you woul like to become more competitive?
dredge in general is missing 2 key pieces, but dredgevine does see some play. It took top 8 at the IQ in syracuse last week.
other decks, 8rack, loam rock, cruel control, various trap decks, taking turns, zoo is basically tier 2 at this point. 4/5c good stuff (tribal zoo).
August 16, 2014 9:06 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #5
I'd like to see glass cannon reanimator do some work
August 16, 2014 10:36 a.m.
Crazybop09 says... #6
Id like to see dredgevine see more play aswell, i also like trap decks. Ive been researching and doing alot of testing with miracles in modern and have been competitive against all tier 1 decks... sometimes if you mess with cards enough and know how to pilot the deck even if its not considered a tier 2 or whatever deck, you can make it as good or better if you pilot better than those who have tier 1 decks
August 16, 2014 11:13 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #7
Crazybop09 if love to see your list. That deck is literally the only control deck I've ever wanted to play but I've never found a legacy playgroup
August 16, 2014 11:20 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #9
I always liked the Summer Bloom decks and Dredgevine, they are both very interesting decks that use very interesting angles of attack.
August 16, 2014 1:57 p.m.
Hm.... I would love to see a competitive Norin's Soul Sisters deck :D It could be so awesome!
August 16, 2014 2:12 p.m.
Crazybop09 says... #12
August 16, 2014 2:48 p.m.
The modern monogreen devotion decks are fun to pilot.
August 16, 2014 3:31 p.m.
@BLEATH: I second that. Gifts Ungiven is really hard to play and tends to not stabilize before it can cast its namesake. Not to mention, it's fighting with Cryptic Command for the four-drop blue control card.
It's such a fun card to build a deck around :(
August 16, 2014 8:53 p.m.
MWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(wish i could type my laugh louder)
!!!!!! LAND DESTRUCTION MY GOOD SIR :D !!!!!!
I have been attempting to make Land destruction viable for about a year now. I must say, do it right and LD whoops most high ranked decks. Land destruction needs to be made viable. I encourage you all to try to make a good LD deck. Just for fun, in fact I challange you. Check out my decks if you wish (almost all pop land.) I assure you, LD is working its way to viability. (Deep booming voice causing camera shake) IT MUST!!!!!!!!! be made viable
August 17, 2014 9:01 p.m.
@nickiru: I was playing 4-Color Land Destruction for a while. I had to stop when they banned Deathrite Shaman Q_Q
August 18, 2014 12:21 a.m.
deatrjite? how is does that assist LD? That thing was always a bane to my LD decks, and now he is gone I am all the more happy to play land destruction.
4-color LD eh? may I get a deck list if you got one? I always have all colors but I am curious what other people's decks are like.
August 18, 2014 11:02 a.m.
Turn one: play fetchland -> Deathrite Shaman Turn two: Stone Rain / Rain of Tears / Molten Rain Turn three: you can eat what you blew up out of their graveyard.
Mainly, Deathrite Shaman gave early game ramp and then a win condition once they no longer could cast spells.
Here is the decklist I was using. Birds of Paradise was Deathrite Shaman and Chandra, the Firebrand should be Chandra, Pyromaster .
I'd also take out Liliana of the Veil for Fulminator Mage s, but I don't own any.
August 18, 2014 6:28 p.m.
ok i see, but how does one stone rain turn 2 when turn 1 was casting deathrite, not mana ramp?
August 18, 2014 8:49 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #21
Deathrite Shaman is a ramp spell, as long as there is land in a graveyard. RTFC.
August 18, 2014 9:22 p.m.
@nickiru: ...which is why I said I don't play Land Destruction anymore after it got banned lol.
August 19, 2014 2:54 a.m.
lol, right. There are more powerful things out there, y did they ban deathrite? seems random to me.
August 19, 2014 10:32 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #25
Oh God this is about to be another "Free the deathrite" thread!
August 19, 2014 10:34 a.m.
Deathrite is one of the most powerful cards ever printed. Read the card. All that for 1 mana.
August 19, 2014 10:35 a.m.
really? i thought deathrit was crappy, a lightweight utility, thus i was unsure y they banned it over kiki-jiki
August 19, 2014 11:07 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #28
It's a win condition, Birds of Paradise , and a way to dig yourself out of a hole. Oh yeah, and it costs one mana.
August 19, 2014 11:10 a.m.
i would rather Birds of Paradise just because not everyone has lands in there graveyard.
How can Deathrite Shaman get you out of a hole? It merely gets you 2 life or damages the enemy for 2, with the off chance of mana ramp. All of it are dependencies upon what you and your enemy have lost in there graveyards. He is ever-so easily able to be burned, or Abrupt Decay ed, or whatever.
At least with my experiences, when it was legal, I would fight it all the time in black decks. I was 'never' or 'ever' came close to a threat. Like Tarmogoyf , easily removed, not threatening.... These cards are so overrated.
August 19, 2014 11:31 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #30
So, I'm not going to argue with you over whether or not Deathrite Shaman is good. I'll let other people do that if they so choose. You'll learn eventually, I hope. :)
I would like to make it absolutely clear that I am not trying to be condescending in any way.
August 19, 2014 11:46 a.m.
Same here, I'm not trying to argue for the sake of being a turd. I love debates and I wish to learn and improve in this game. Convince me that it is good. (warning, I can seem stubborn :D
August 19, 2014 11:49 a.m.
"Different flavors of black-green decks have recently been among the best-performing decks in Modern. These decks play many very efficient ways to trade cards one for one with their opponents, such as Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, and Abrupt Decay. Strong mana acceleration helps these decks trade one for one efficiently enough that they can keep up with the other decks in a large format such as Modern, but normally playing mana acceleration comes at the cost of playing cards that are less powerful in the late game. Deathrite Shaman, however, is powerful at all stages of the game. Having a strong attrition-based deck as a large portion of the metagame makes it difficult for decks that are based on synergies between cards instead of individually powerful cards. We believe that removing Deathrite Shaman from the format will leave more room for future innovation."
Don't make use convince you... it doesn't matter what you believe. It matters what the DCI thinks and believes and wants.
August 19, 2014 noon
wow, that is the crappiest reason they could think of. holy shot. that's it?!? kiki-jiki loops crap limits people (me) FAR more than deathrite. EVERY deck I make::: I make it, it does well, and then I have to tear it up and redesign to deal with infinite loop kikijiki, which then makes the deck hyper vulnerable to aggro and other decks.
The splinter twin, and kikijiki combos are unspeakably and vastly more limiting to the game. There are so many strategies I want to use, they would kick butt, and they do, until I hit a looper. Deathrite was never threatening, it was simply a good card, like Knight of the Reliquary which I have recently took great notice and appreciation for.
When I have to make a deck that must beat a loop deck by turn 4-6, it is oh so very limiting. Me and many many of my friends have come and gone from magic due to discouragement because of infinity variable. It don't matter if 'I' came up with this genius combo and gain a ton of life and an army of high powered creatures, infinite variable and it's all destroyed. no fun. It's like land destruction, why play?
Well, enough of me ranting: I just think they are misplacing their bannings: BY A LONG SHOT
August 19, 2014 12:24 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #34
Well, when you build a deck you have to be able to deal with combo decks. THere's no way around it. They won't just ban combo cards because they can win quickly, because competitive players always have ways to answer a combo via removal, counterspells, discard ,etc. If you want to play a fun deck, make sure it can hold up to the tier 1 decks. It's not WotC's fault for banning the wrong cards (they've been absolutely correct on all of their bannings in my mind), it's your fault for not being ready for what's good.
August 19, 2014 12:29 p.m.
True, I do agree to that, it is simply the rate at which the combo decks win, and the combo is not something you can fight, it is a win or lose scenario which is boring.
August 19, 2014 1:10 p.m.
This has become a joke now. I'm literally unsure about how to structure a reply because my minds been blown into tiny pieces......
You think that Kiki jiki is a better card because its involved in one infinite loop? You realise there's this thing called a sideboard right? You pack it with instant speed removal (anything that does two damage or exiles a creature) and you've deal with combos......
You don't have to win by T4 - in fact that's what decks with DRS (deathrite shaman) were good at: the long game. All you need is some instant speed removal or other things. Red has Lightning Bolt , blue has Mana Leak , Hinder etc, white has Path to Exile , black has Doom Blade , Go for the Throat and many more, green doesn't have much.
Everyone has land in their graveyards in modern if you're playing fetchlands like Verdant Catacombs ....... And yes, a one drop being able to do 2 damage or gain you 2 life every single turn, depending on what you need is a massive deal.
But basically, not understanding why DRS is (was) a threat and why tarmogoyf is a threat is to completely miss the point about how this game should be played. It's all about economy and spent resources etc.
The point of DRS being banned is that it does EVERYTHING at all points of the game.
The point of kiki-jiki and splinter twin not being banned is that they only do things in conjunction with other cards - they're conditional.
August 19, 2014 1:15 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #37
About the last part of ChiefBell's comment: They have banned combo cards like Hypergenesis and Dark Depths , mostly because those specific combo decks are very difficult to disrupt properly by nature of how the decks are built. The cards may be conditional (fatties in hand, Vampire Hexmage , what have you), but the decks they are played in have enough ways to get the combo through that they were deemed too powerful.
There are plenty of ways to fight a combo deck. I don't know what you're talking about. Play Thoughtseize . Play Mana Leak . Play removal spells. Sometimes you don't have interaction and they just win, but even then a competent player will rarely put you on stone nothing.
August 19, 2014 1:21 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #38
About the last part of ChiefBell's comment: They have banned combo cards like Hypergenesis and Dark Depths , mostly because those specific combo decks are very difficult to disrupt properly by nature of how the decks are built. The cards may be conditional (fatties in hand, Vampire Hexmage , what have you), but the decks they are played in have enough ways to get the combo through that they were deemed too powerful.
There are plenty of ways to fight a combo deck. I don't know what you're talking about. Play Thoughtseize . Play Mana Leak . Play removal spells. Sometimes you don't have interaction and they just win, but even then a competent player will rarely put you on stone nothing.
August 19, 2014 1:21 p.m.
KnightFire says... #39
The question was how do you cast Stone Rain (CMC 3) on turn 2, when your only mana ramp is deathrite shaman. The only way you could do that is if your opponent discarded a land in turn 1 for some reason. DRS doesnt mana ramp with an empty graveyard.
As for modern decks that it would be nice to see a little stronger, I have always had a soft spot for linear aggro decks, I would love to see more aggro goblins/elves/sliver decks.
August 20, 2014 9:56 a.m.
What do you think a 1 mana planeswalker would look like? The fact that DRS has better abilities than the 2 mana planeswalker they gave us is saying a lot.
Here are the things that DRS does. Then maybe this will help you realize why he is good.
-Helps you drop Liliana of the Veil
and other powerful three drops on turn 2.
-Removes cards from the yard that would otherwise be flashed back with Snapcaster Mage
and does so at the price of 2 life for the opponent.
-Removes creatures like Vengevine
or Griselbrand
from the graveyard to hurt reanimation, and nets you two life in the process (negating that Thoughtseize
or untapped Overgrown Tomb
you played earlier)
-He eats that lone sorcery or instant in the graveyard to lower the power of Tarmogoyf
.
-He is a 1/2 meaning he can actually get into the red zone if he needs to, or make a block in a pinch.
Until you play with him or against him and win/lose games strictly on his lose two life ability, you just don't realize how powerful he really is. He really is a mini-planeswalker.
August 20, 2014 9:56 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #41
@KnightFire Verdant Catacombs into Deathrite Shaman does the job. Everyone has lands in their graveyard.
darthfrog is exactly correct. There are two one-drop planeswalkers, with Mother of Runes being the worse of the two (not by a particularly wide margin, but nevertheless DRS is better).
August 20, 2014 10 a.m.
@KnightFire - Fetch lands. Everyone uses them. That there would be no lands in any yard by turn 2 is pretty rare.
As for decks I want to be more viable, I would love some Dredge help. I play Dredgevine right now, but would love to see Wizards allow for Dredge to be a thing in Modern. Without many of the cards that make it be a turn 2/3 kill in legacy, I think it would be safe to unban the Troll and Dread Return .
But really, Modern is quite healthy as is. Many fringe decks can catch T1 decks off-guard.
August 20, 2014 10:06 a.m.
forestlore44 says... #43
Yeah, I kind of aggree. Come on, modern deserves at least one potentially viable reanimator deck. It would also be nice if we had a couple more aggro and control strategies like zoo, gifts control, and grixis control. I'm kind of sick of seeing UWR, affinity and all the straight combo decks.
August 20, 2014 1:36 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #44
Goryo's Vengeance is a fragile and somewhat inconsistent deck, but is the fastest deck in the format when you do go off.
IMO there are plenty of different aggro decks, including Affinity, UR Delver, Burn. I do see the need for Zoo to be more played, since it's nice to see it every now and then.
Tron, Grixis, Gifts and Faeries are all reasonable control decks, all of which should really see more play.
August 20, 2014 1:50 p.m.
As an enthusiastic Earth mage, I really hope Mono Green Devotion gets some love in Khans and breaks into Tier 1. The deck is a blast, just a little inconsistent. I'm slightly surprised that Reanimator decks haven't been having a ball with DRS gone. There's a Ninjistu thread on Mtg:Salvation that looks pretty fun. But I don't think Modern needs any more "new" decks; it's pretty diverse as is.
August 22, 2014 9:48 p.m.
selesvyaloverer8 says... #47
Mono-Green Devotion is the deck i currently play at modern events and it uses Genesis Wave and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn as win cons. its a sweet deck that is capable of blindingly fast starts.
August 23, 2014 12:02 a.m.
August 23, 2014 4:50 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #49
Polymorph decks. And only because Bitterblossom got unbanned. Now Esper Polymorph can be really deadly, and has a wonderous coloured mana cost base in that it has NO multicoloured cards, and only TWO types of cards that cost 2 cmc. Unless you count the sideboard with Sadistic Sacrament .
Okay Kids, It's Show and Tell Time! Playtest
Modern
SCORE: 60 | 53 COMMENTS | 4933 VIEWSBeyond that I really enjoy Junk Death's Shadow builds. And once again, the Bitterblossom unban makes it much more resilient against numerous deck archetypes.
The Grim Reaper is Stalking Us .... Playtest
Modern
SCORE: 60 | 16 COMMENTS | 6063 VIEWSDega Sisters and Brothers. I'm really liking these builds (it's such a shame I didn't create the idea fast enough myself) Norin the Wary really compliments the deck, and the cheap creatures make Dark Confidant shine really well. I'm gonna throw in another Bitterblossom reference here, but I like the build because of the access to a lot more removal than most sister builds, making it a lot more resilient.
"I have a bad feeling about this." Playtest
Modern
SCORE: 152 | 4 COMMENTS | 12778 VIEWSMy final fringe deck that I have yet to build properly is an Athreos, God of Passage deck. What does it fit will in? Junkticrats? Dega-Aggro? Or is it more of a home in the dega sisters build mentioned above? I may never know, but here is an example of the Junkticrats build I have running for Athreos, God of Passage .
The Frequent Return of Parting Playtest
Modern*
SCORE: 16 | 8 COMMENTS | 1769 VIEWSAugust 25, 2014 11:40 p.m.
Hey, selesvyaloverer8 how do eldrazi work for you, while they seem like good things to genesis wave out, They don't provide any devotion and you don't really get a cast effect. Arent they mostly big dumb beaters? I'm using Primeval Titan and Primalcrux as my big dumb beaters and getting them mid game feels good too.
quesobueno123 says... #2
Eggs, I like 5 hour matches.
August 16, 2014 8:27 a.m.