Mardu Nahiri vs Jeskai Nahiri?
Modern forum
Posted on Jan. 14, 2017, 10:02 p.m. by amazingdan
I'm currently considering a trade with a friend for a Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek among other things. Alternatively, I could order myself a Snappy and some Serum Visions. I've been wanting to build into a Nahiri, the Harbinger list for a while and I already own all the Nahiris. With the printing of Fatal Push, which version do you think will be the most viable, or will they be at least close in power level, or will Fatal Push affect it at all? I have about equal parts for each deck right now. I like the Mardu build a bit better, but I don't want to spend a bunch of time and money on something if there's a better version. I understand that it's hard to predict the future, I just want to hear some second opinions. Thanks!
The Jeskai build wants to play primarily at instant speed but Nahiri forces it to tap out. This tension lead to a pretty rapid decline of the deck after initial interest. The Mardu list has a different problem. It's more willing to tap out on its own turn but Mardu doesn't have a great creature finisher as a plan B, compared to Jeskai lists that run Celestial Colonnade. Mardu is excellent at handling a creature-heavy meta while Jeskai tries to split the difference between removal and counterspells.
So if you're looking for a stock list there will be pros and cons of each. I personally believe a modified version of the standard Mardu list is far better than any Jeskai list I've found so far but it has some incredibly weak matchups - Tron, Valakut decks, and to a lesser extent Ad Nauseam and Bant Eldrazi are rough.
January 14, 2017 11:17 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #4
I dont think Fatal Push makes you want to play Mardu more. You already have Paths and Bolts
January 15, 2017 12:55 a.m.
amazingdan says... #5
SwaggyMcSwagglepants So how do the two versions compare if Push doesn't it in your opinion?
Scouty What makes you say that? Is the Jeskai shell more versatile because of its counterspells?
Omeros Thank you for that response! Very well thought out and it gave me exactly the type of information I was looking for. Do you have any experience playing with or against either deck?
January 15, 2017 9:31 a.m.
amazingdan: I've been playing Mardu (with or without Nahiri) since a few weeks after SOI came out. My list has gone through at least six different builds as I try to fix some of the weaknesses of the deck. For reference, here's the list as of last week: Marduu. The deck description gives some of the history of how I got to that list, and then I'll add a little more because I'm actually looking into cutting the Nahiri package entirely...
In short, Mardu doesn't have a Tarmogoyf replacement so most of the time you're going to have trouble switching from control to beatdown plan if you're not in a position to just tick up Nahiri. This means you need to be able to stay ahead on card advantage and grind them out but your options are a bit mixed. For the most part, you have Read the Bones, Painful Truths, Wall of Omens, and Dark Confidant. Bones and Truths have merit but if you're on the standard plan of 3-4 Liliana and 4 Lingering Souls this clogs up your 3 drops something fierce. Going to Wall is basically admitting that the only way you can win is Nahiri, and that means post-board you're in real trouble if they have answers for Nahiri.
And finally, Bob. Unless you go heavy into Mardu Midrange you just don't have enough other creatures in play so Dark Confidant is sure to eat the removal spells rotting in their hand. Jund decks are okay with this because that's one removal spell that wasn't targeted at one of their bigger threats. We... don't. Butcher of the Horde is the closest we have, and if you're running him you're really a BW tokens list splashing Red - a completely different deck that doesn't want Nahiri.
What I realized was that there were games I could almost grind out with Souls tokens and a small beater like Bob if I could just get some additional removal spells in my hand. But how to do this without ruining my curve? My solution to this was a splash for Blue for 4 Snapcaster Mage and nothing else. Flashing back removal, discard, or Surgical Extraction against spell combo/Dredge always felt good. In the testing I've done the deck feels like it's at least 50/50 against every fair deck except Bant Eldrazi, and is actually heavily favored against many of them. The price is that your matchup against Tron is almost impossible and Valakut is little better. If those and Bant Eldrazi make a comeback after the Probe ban we're in trouble because all our matchups are so skewed.
I've written a novel here already so I guess I'll leave out what I'm currently testing. I'll just say that I'm seriously considering cutting Nahiri but still building for long, grindy matches.
January 15, 2017 11:51 a.m.
Fatal Push adds a lot to Mardu Control/Midrange lists. Path to Exile is an excellent answer... in the late game. It's a terrible feeling to have to Path an opponent's threat early on because the ramp you're giving them is usually worth the price of their creature. Being able to go with a 3/3 split of Path and Push is a huge boost to the deck as it also means you can skimp on Terminate if you're not worried about Chalice of the Void on 1.
January 15, 2017 11:53 a.m.
mymanpotsandpans says... #8
Don't forget about a simple Boros Nahiri list. Similar to the old Boros Ensnaring Bridge decks. Dropping a turn 2 Blood Moon or turn 1 Chalice of the Void set to 1 and finishing the game with a coalition of plansewalkers. While you loose the hand disruption cards and counter spells from running black or blue, your disruption comes from blood moon and chalice which can set your opponent back for the entire match.
Scouty says... #2
If either version, jeskai will likely be the better version, since the UWR shell is better than the Mardu shell
January 14, 2017 10:24 p.m.