Jund Is Control
Modern forum
Posted on May 28, 2015, 8:11 p.m. by MAGESTIC_LLAMA
What is Control? What exactly constitutes a Control deck? Well, a Control deck is focused around controlling your opponent's hand, deck and board. Control is able to do so by generating card advantage, making sure they have more options than your opponent. Control eventually ends the game through a hard to remove win condition
You may be rolling your eyes at me explaining what Control is, but thats important. The angle Im going for is that Jund is a control deck, one of the best ones in Modern. Lets take a look at some of the best and recent Modern decks.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9798&d=256507&f=MO
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9761&d=256174&f=MO
Lets take a look at the similarities and differences in these decks. For starters, they both run around 10-16 creatures. They use efficient threats that have utility stapled on, in order to generate card advantage. They have about 16-18 instants and sorceries. All of these are either hand attack, spot removal or two for ones like Kolaghan's Command or Maelstrom Pulse. These spells help Jund control the board so they can beat face with a Tarmogoyf or Scavenging Ooze. Removal is the backbone of Jund. Without efficiency, Jund just doesnt work.
Well what about Card Advantage? Jund has two of the best cards for generating value. Liliana of the Veil and Dark Confidant (Bob). These two together force your opponent into relying on drawing something good, get rid of their options while giving you an extremely powerful advantage of cards in hand. Both cards are 60$ for a reason, and are cornerstones of many Modern decklists.
Proactive Vs Reactive.
Modern is a turn four format. What I mean by this, is that Modern games are generally decided by turn four. This cuts out a large amount of decks, including decks that are exclusively Reactive. A Reactive deck responds to your opponent's threats, and doesnt develop a board presence. This kind of Control is what dominates Standard, due to the relative slowness of the format. However, Modern is dominated by Proactive decks. Delver lists, Red Deck Wins, Zoo, Urzatron and Infect all focus on developing a board position. The deal with the meta is that most decks can cast threats much faster than control can remove them. So for control to work in Modern, it must be Proactive. Jund fits that ticket.
This is my argument. Read it, consider it then post. Have a nice day all.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #3
I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to prove. Is it that Jund is a control deck?
EDIT: That seems to have been answered.
May 28, 2015 8:17 p.m. Edited.
GlistenerAgent says... #4
Yep, yep and yep. No argument from me. Fairly common knowledge, but nevertheless good to be familiar with.
Jund is better than Abzan. All y'all go play it.
May 28, 2015 8:19 p.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #5
This is the point where I regret watching so much "shrek is life".
May 28, 2015 8:20 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #6
All the BGx decks have been control since DRS was banned. That card was your aggro plan, and now that you don't have one you've gotta grind with Tasigur.
May 28, 2015 8:21 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #7
Jund is a pseudo-control deck. Not to be mixed up with pure control decks. It's a tempo deck that uses some control elements to keep the opponent off balance, but it doesn't aim to lock down the opponent FIRST, as pure control lists do. And I'm still confused on what the point of posting this is... As Agent said, it's common knowledge and all...
May 28, 2015 8:21 p.m. Edited.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #8
Got in an argument in another thread, didn't want to derail so I made this
May 28, 2015 8:21 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #9
You don't need to have counterspells to be a pure control deck. See Standard Abzan Control. Jund just has creatures instead of more removal.
Also, can I get a link to that thread?
May 28, 2015 8:24 p.m. Edited.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #10
Right, well part of the definition of a pure control list is that it doesn't have many creatures... See my comment above, I edited it a bit.
May 28, 2015 8:25 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #11
It is the one about the Lack of control GlistenerAgent.
May 28, 2015 8:29 p.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #12
Heres the thread about the lack of control in modern
http://tappedout.net/mtg-forum/modern/the-lack-of-modern-control/?page=2#c2113605
May 28, 2015 8:30 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #14
I mean, OK. But that'a a distinction that doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things.
May 28, 2015 8:47 p.m.
FreddyFlash311 says... #15
No and yes and no.
It matters in the sense that people like to go around claiming that Modern is completely horrid because there's "no control decks" when really there are control decks, it's just not their control decks. Control is not soley defined as a UWR deck that runs xzy cards, but heaven forbid we mention the "C" word when talking about the Modern meta.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA, I understand man.
May 28, 2015 9:03 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #16
People go crazy because there's not a dedicated control deck in the format. Which is pretty normal, but something people find upsetting because it's the only archetype that just doesn't exist (in Modern).
May 28, 2015 9:13 p.m. Edited.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #17
People are acting like "EVERY CONTROL DECK MUST HAVE BLUE!", when thats just not true. (get it? True/Blue?... I'll show myself out)
May 28, 2015 9:18 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #18
I'm going to say that every pure control deck has blue. Not that there's a rule that says that they have to be blue, but rather blue is just too good to be ignored.
May 28, 2015 9:20 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #20
I have to disagree FAMOUSWATERMELON. Just because blue has always been the backbone of the DrawGo style control decks doesn't mean control can't evolve outside that.
May 28, 2015 9:28 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #21
Historically, the most controlling decks have had blue. Jund is not a pure control deck, rather a midrange deck with man control elements.
This is known as an attrition deck. For those unfamiliar with the word, it basically means that you screw with the opponent and gain small, but important, advantages as the game goes along, until you get to the point where the opponent just can't fight you any more.
May 28, 2015 9:32 p.m.
asasinater13 says... #22
Could jund be called a tempo deck? IT's similar to decks like Delver where it wants to land it's two-drop (goyf, scooze) and then beat with them while disrupting the opponent and slowly building the board.
May 28, 2015 9:41 p.m. Edited.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #23
Ie, a proactive control deck. Which is exactly what Jund is.
May 28, 2015 9:44 p.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #24
The difference is that Jund doesn't make tempo plays like delver, which has Electrolyze and Young Pyromancer. Jund loves trading 1 for 1 and putting your opponent in topdeck mode
May 28, 2015 9:46 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #25
MindAblaze Control can be blue-less. Pure control cannot.
May 28, 2015 9:53 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #26
Sure it can. A million removal/discard spells, some badass finisher.
Also, it seems like your definition of pure control is slowly shifting towards "counterspells".
May 28, 2015 10:05 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #28
My definition of pure control is a deck that aims to shut down the opponent early to middle while continuing to draw regularly, and finishes late game against a clean board. Blue is essential in this because it can provide the shutting down and the regular card draw better than any other color.
May 28, 2015 10:14 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #29
8-rack is not pure control because it does not have the draw element in it. And it can win by burn as well.
May 28, 2015 10:15 p.m.
FreddyFlash311 says... #30
Why doesn't anyone count BUG? Seriously? Remand, Mana Leak, Cryptic, Damnation, Snapcaster... How isn't that control? I can get it that it doesn't see as much play as some of the other decks, so yeah anyways.
May 28, 2015 10:16 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #31
I feel like Control in itself is meant to be reactive.
Whilst it can play a play a proactive gameplan it should primarily be reactive.
May 28, 2015 10:17 p.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #33
Because it's reactive, and therefor has a hard time in modern
May 28, 2015 10:26 p.m.
asasinater13 says... #34
FAMOUSWATERMELON control's plan is to deny opponents of resources until they either win through some kind of slowly hurting the opponent cards (like twin decks when it doesn't combo; using snapcasters, bolts, and some pestermite attacks), or through landing a big win-con (AEtherling). 8-rack is dedicated to denying opponents of resources through discard and then preying on that with their racks, it's a pretty good example of non-blue control as it does very little pointing something deadly directly at your opponents face. It doesn't start out fast, so it isn't aggro. It doesn't play mana dorks into creatures so it's not really midrange, and it doesn't abuse a specific interaction the way combo does. If it isn't a control deck than what is it?
on topic for this thread, jund is a hybrid control deck, it doesn't dedicate entirely to denial of resources, where a pure control deck needs to be stopping the opponent from playing magic.
May 28, 2015 10:29 p.m.
Lightning Bolt, Blightning maybe Thoughtseize and Thrun, the Last Troll: These are all Jund Control cards.
I agree, any color deck can be labeled as "control" provided it runs the write cards to make the idea of control work.
May 28, 2015 10:29 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #36
Not necessarily true.
To the Reactive being a hard time statement.
May 28, 2015 10:30 p.m. Edited.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #37
Gruul control can work, the two most anti control colors, along with G/W control.
(why'd you make your username so hard to quote?)
May 28, 2015 10:32 p.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #38
Oh, I see. The thing is, modern IS a turn four format. It is incredibly difficult to drag things out past then, because of how effecient modern threats are. So yes, being a reactive deck is much harder in Modern then in standard or legacy.
May 28, 2015 10:34 p.m.
asasinater13 says... #39
I don't think control needs to be reactive. Thoughtseize is a pro-active control card, so is Vendilion Clique. They stop cards before they're causing a problem, and control is all about stoping cards that would be problems. Land destruction probably should be considered control and it's absolutely not reactive.
May 28, 2015 10:35 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #40
Long story.
Whilst it can work and be controlling, It still isnt a pure control deck.
May 28, 2015 10:35 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #41
I think the issue is you are limiting "pure control" to a DrawGo, finish with a Morphling style of deck. While I would say Junds style of control is more how a midrange deck functions, I think there's a thin line between Midrange and Control at times and I don't think to 
or not to is the question.
IMO, a control deck reacts to the threats an opponents deck can muster. Jund prevents the threats from sticking, but it does it proactively. I think pure control is an ideal that maybe the game has evolved away from. The issue is the reactive cards in Modern are crappy and too slow (that begs the question of why?) Bring back Mental Misstep!
May 28, 2015 10:37 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #42
Modern was a turn 4 format when control one worlds and PT BNG.
May 28, 2015 10:37 p.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #43
Then pure control is bad in Modern. Your acting like any deck besides "pure" control is inferior, and like "pure" control is some kind of Aryan master race.
May 28, 2015 10:37 p.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #45
No. Mental Misstep should be banned in every format 'cept vintage. It is format warping. And bijschjdbcd, if you want people to pay attention to you provide supporting evidence and posts longer than two sentences.
May 28, 2015 10:39 p.m.
I think how we define decks is somewhat limited. Jund and all G/B variants in the format to a greater extent feel designed more with resiliency than control in mind. As such, I don't think the label of control is fitting. This doesn't really come down to whether control needs blue or not. In my mind, that point is rather moot.
May 28, 2015 10:41 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #48
Ugh, This discussion hads come up multiple times.
What is Midrange? A controlling deck, That statement is correct, However that does not make it a control deck.
What's a Control decks goal? Get to the late game (Whether this is a viable strategy is debatable and a completely different discussion).
Now, Keeping Control's goals in mind I would ask does Jund do this? Does it have a reliable source of card advantage?
Happy?
May 28, 2015 10:48 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #49
Such shitstorm over such inconsequential topic. Just play your fucking decks, guys.
May 28, 2015 10:51 p.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #50
Yes, if you decided to read my OP you would know about Junds sources of card advantage
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #2
Mistitled it due to absent-mindeness. Should be "Jund is control". Tagging Epochalyptik to fix it maybe?
May 28, 2015 8:17 p.m.