Infect without Gitaxian Probe
Posted on Jan. 10, 2017, 9:15 a.m. by clayperce
I've started trading for and (slowly) buying the core cards for a competitive Infect deck, and I'm wondering what to do with the slots from Gitaxian Probe ...
- Peek (though I'm pretty sure it's not worth it for )?
- Surgical Extraction (better information and same low cost, but no Draw)?
- More-ofs of other cards (Blossoming Defense, Spell Pierce, Distortion Strike, etc), to increase consistency?
- Something else entirely?
Thanks for your thoughts!
Probably more Spell pierces. It helps protect yourself while comboing for cheap mana now that you dont have a free way to get perfect information. Peek is simply just too much mana for the effect.
January 10, 2017 9:25 a.m.
Possibly Apostle's Blessing, Serum Visions or as you have said Blossoming Defense, and Distortion Strike. I myself am not quite sure exactly yet, but I will be using 4 Blossoming Defense, 1-2 Apostle's Blessing, 2 Distortion Strike, then probably cutting a Become Immense was one suggestion GeminiSpartanX told me down from 4-3 because of the loss of Gitaxian Probe and I agree on this as on average it's going to cost more.
January 10, 2017 9:33 a.m.
Yeah, just seems too high to me too. And even if only cast it at the end of my opponent's turn, I'd still be tapping out way too often and opening myself up for removal.
BTW, we can still get perfect information (and then some) for free from Surgical Extraction.
I'm not a big fan of Apostle's Blessing in my current meta. There are just too many Eldrazi :-)
I unfortunately picked up 4x Gitaxian Probes with some money I got for Christmas ... ah well! :_(
Thanks much to you both!
January 10, 2017 9:52 a.m.
It'll be more protection effects of some kind, to keep you from getting blown out (since now you can't see the removal coming). Whether they'll be Apostle's Blessing, Spellskite, or Spell Pierce, I'm not sure.
January 10, 2017 9:55 a.m.
Slip Through Space is what I'd go with, but I'm not an infect player.
January 10, 2017 9:58 a.m.
January 10, 2017 10:02 a.m.
Yeah, I LOVE a good Unblockable effect, and it's great to hear it from the other side of the table too! :-)
January 10, 2017 10:08 a.m.
Blossoming Defense is a 4-of already in my mind. I'm a big believer in the "max protect" style of Infect.
January 10, 2017 10:39 a.m.
I added a Slip, a Groundswell, a Dismember, and a Spell Pierce to my maindeck (need to update the list online)
If youre running 19 lamd infect, I think its necessary to run the Dryad Arbor justbas a mana source with upside. I also think you need to up the one-of cards.
If you're going to run evasion, Slip might just be better. I think I'll also cut a Become Immense for either another Groundswell or a Serum Visions.
Im waiting to see what the likes of Tom Ross and ORAT say before I buy Serum Visions for the deck. If you don't own the cards, dont go buy any expensive carda, just because its not unlikely were all just wrong here.
January 10, 2017 12:11 p.m.
I figure that some of the cards that made the deck pre-Blossoming Defense will make a comeback. I'm personally adding a MD Viridian Corrupter (my meta has chalice decks), 1-2 Apostle's Blessings, and either another Dismember or Spellskite. It should free up some SB space as well to allow for some interesting cards I'd like to try out again like Wild Defiance or Carrion Call against removal-heavy decks.
January 10, 2017 1:28 p.m.
From my current list, my plan is to add two Blossoming Defense (up to four), an Apostle's Blessing (up to two) and two Groundswells for the four Probes and one Become Immense. I might end up cutting another BI, not sure on that one yet. The sideboard may also have to change to accomodate the increased overall mana cost and additional protection spells.
January 10, 2017 1:55 p.m.
I'd personally am not gonna cut any Become Immense yet even without Gitaxian Probe you have a ton of low cost spells that fill your graveyard. I've also looked at Surgical Extraction so I'm putting a few in my SB. I increased Blossoming Defense to 4 which I was only running 2. I've also have considered Manamorphose which is a free spell and u draw a card as well. But I'm still currently testing different ideas.
January 10, 2017 4:21 p.m.
these are all great idea's i shall do some play testing to see what ones work the best.
January 10, 2017 5:03 p.m.
Since no one has mentioned it, Street Wraith does the free cycling and thinning aspect.
January 10, 2017 6:01 p.m.
Those are the two aspects that didnt matter. It was the information probe gave WHILE cycling itself
January 10, 2017 6:26 p.m.
Thanks so much for all the responses ... there's just a ton of great ideas here! It'll be exciting to see how it all shakes out.
Thanks again, and draw well!
January 11, 2017 7:27 a.m.
We never gonna get what Gitaxian Probe gave us for 2 life. So it really depends on what you want to go with if you wanna fill your graveyard for Become Immense you could use spells like Manamorphose which a free spell and you draw a card which is pretty good. We have Gut Shot kills some weenie creatures and can be cast for 2 life helps fill graveyard. We have Surgical Extraction look at hand,graveyard and library which extremely useful to see and plan for the next match. We have Peek which does everything Gitaxian Probe did but trying up a blue source for it just not worth it. Than we could use more protection spells to make up for the uncertainty of our opponents hand.
January 11, 2017 8:05 a.m.
January 17, 2017 4:48 a.m.
So, my thoughts...
The main benefit of Probe was it told you whether it was safe to go for the kill. I think we should just accept that now we're going to be fighting blind just like everyone else. My answer is to play more protective cards, though I actually think I'm going to keep Become Immense at 3. I'll quickly go over a few things that could fill those 4 slots.
Wild Defiance. This was seen a lot in the pre-BI days, and it's not hard to see why. In a deck with mana dorks in the form of Noble Hierarch, you shouldn't have much trouble casting a 3 mana enchantment. It adds a ton of value to your pumps, even turning Mutagenic Growth into +5/+5 for no mana. But the real beauty of this card is it makes bolt useless for your opponent. Burn now can't do anything to you barring sided Path to Exile and artifact hate on your Inkmoth Nexus. Opposing Dismember now only gives -2/-2 and can easily be played around.
Spellskite. This has been seeing less and less play as it doesn't fuel BI in any way and there's plenty of artifact hate running around. But I kind of like it as an insurance card.
Spell Pierce, Blossoming Defense, and Apostle's Blessing. Whether you're upping your count of these or adding blessings into a deck that had none. Blessing is both a form of evasion and protection against removal, and it can be cast with colorless mana from Inkmoth. Spell Pierce is a fantastic card as no matter what it puts your opponent at a state of minus. 2 mana often means they can't cast an additional removal spell on the stack, and that's if they have the mana at all. If they know you're playing infect, they know you may have Spell Pierce, and they know they need mana open and that they cannot afford to go all-in. Blossoming Defence is a no-brainer. It's the little brother card to Vines of Vastwood. I was only running 2 due to issues of space, and I'm now looking back and asking myself why didn't I have at least 3. Well I'm running 3 now and considering going up to 4.
Dismember, Twisted Image, Distortion Strike, and Slip Through Space, or rather additional copies of any of the above. Every one of these is useful for obvious reasons. The main one being ensuring you can land a hit with Glistener Elf, or in the case of Twisted Image, killing opposing spellskites or the occasional hierarch. Image also cantrips. In matchups where no 'skite is present I more or less just think of TI as a blue 1 cmc instant that reads "draw a card". In that respect it's useful for Become Immense fodder.
Peek, Serum Visions, Forbidden Alchemy, Street Wraith. I don't like these. They seem like a half-hearted attempt to maintain the momentum probe gave us. As a previous commenter mentioned, we should just accept that we'll never have what probe gave us. Probe let us see their hand, put a card in grave, draw a card, and for no mana. It was incredible because it did ALL of these things.
Surgical Extraction. Guys, a big reason probe was so good was it replaced itself. This is usually complete minus. I see it as not worth the gamble.
So, that's my two cents. Discuss?
January 17, 2017 12:50 p.m.
I agree with everything YamishiTheWickedOne said above. I'll add that I wouldn't run more than 1-2 Wild Defiance in the 75, as the 2nd one is normally a dead draw, or will put you enough behind on tempo that you'll not want to play it.
The only thing I'd add to his list is the possibility of Groundswell seeing play in the deck again in place of the 4th Become Immense if you feel the need for additional pump. In my testing so far, sometimes you don't have the turn 3-4 kill due to lacking pump spells, but anything that cantrips should help cover that too, so it's up to your personal preference.
January 17, 2017 1:59 p.m.
Here is my list for infect, I made some changes to it. How does this seem? I'm really unsure about the sideboard and whether or not I should include some of the "maybeboard" cards to either than main 60, or to my sideboard.
January 17, 2017 3 p.m.
Oops, here is the list:
SCORE: 2 | 5 COMMENTS | 283 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
January 17, 2017 3:01 p.m.
GeminiSpartanX I agree on 1-2 defiance at most. And I failed to give a bigger mention to groundswell because I was running out for the weekly modern locals. 2 other infect players there, one was a big advocate of Peek, the other was more of the mind of "aggro or bust" and was advocating 3-4 groundswell for fast, consistent kills.
January 17, 2017 6:34 p.m.
Oh also this is mine:
I feel like it's a bit slow.
January 17, 2017 8:20 p.m.
Here's my list
SCORE: 88 | 134 COMMENTS | 18546 VIEWS | IN 55 FOLDERS
January 19, 2017 7:02 p.m.
I'm crazy so I added 4x Tezzeret's Gambit I think it might be cool for longer games
Here's the deck: Infect 2017
January 20, 2017 4:32 p.m.
January 20, 2017 5:44 p.m.
Looks like we got our first post-ban 5-0 Infect deck: