I am tired of losing to Modern Burn Decks, please help.
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 10, 2020, 9:39 a.m. by antacidbrn
In my local Modern Meta, there are a lot of burn deck players. Most common is the Boros Burn deck with the usual spells: Lightning Helix, Lightning Bolt, Searing Blaze, Boros Charm, etc. Mana bases are usually a few shock, fast or pain lands with occassional Sunbaked Canyon.
The problem I have is that the game comes down to a dice roll most of the time. I am running Tiny Zoo, Naya colors, and the deck has its fair share of burn spells. But overall, the games vs. Burn are usually over by T4 and the winner of the dice roll wins the round. I am trying not to be salty, but I want to build a deck incapable of losing to Modern Burn. Any ideas?
I have kicked around with running Life Goes On or Dragon Claw in the main deck. Maybe Kor Firewalker?
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #3
Dude. Don't try to beat us, join us instead!
Jokes aside, if you're running green Feed the Clan is probably the best option out there depending on your list (Zoo can easily get 4-power creatures on the board, not sure what 'Tiny Zoo' refers to...) ;)
February 10, 2020 10:04 a.m.
antacidbrn says... #4
Tiny Zoo is a deck filled with more Weenie creatures. Goblin Guide, Vexing Devil, Burning-Tree Emissary, Wild Nacatl.
I don't want to join the legion of Burn lol. Thanks for the suggestion of Feed the Clan.
February 10, 2020 10:09 a.m.
I wouldn't main board any of those cards unless you have good cards to bring in against other decks in your sideboard. Or if your meta is so high on burn that you could in theory go all the way at FNM for winning the night just by smashing burn. If that's the case I would just embrace the plan and run a Soul Sisters list.
Weather the Storm should be good.
February 10, 2020 10:24 a.m.
Oloro_Magic says... #6
Do you have a list you can share? Would make our job a bit easier so we know what to suggest and what can be cut.
February 10, 2020 11:16 a.m.
Deadpoo111 says... #8
Run Leyline of Sanctity in the Sideboard? I mean, it stops mill too so It's worth a few slots
February 10, 2020 11:40 a.m.
antacidbrn says... #9
This is my current list "Tiny Modern Zoo"
Creature (28) 3x Bonecrusher Giant 4x Burning-Tree Emissary 4x Goblin Guide 4x Pelt Collector 4x Reckless Bushwhacker 1x Treetop Ambusher 4x Vexing Devil 4x Wild Nacatl
Sorcery (1) 1x Light Up the Stage
Land (18) 2x Forest 3x Mountain 1x Prismatic Vista 1x Sacred Foundry 2x Stomping Ground 1x Temple Garden 4x Windswept Heath 4x Wooded Foothills Enchantment (4) 4x Rancor
Instant (9) 4x Atarka's Command 1x Boros Charm 4x Lightning Bolt
Sideboard (15) 2x Cindervines 3x Collector Ouphe 2x Kitchen Finks 1x Klothys, God of Destiny 4x Knight of Autumn 2x Melira, Sylvok Outcast 1x Shadowspear
February 10, 2020 12:04 p.m.
Flooremoji says... #10
I also like Weather the Storm . Maybe Lightning Helix ?
Wasn't there a deck like 'Make burn players cry'?
Good luck against burn!
February 10, 2020 1:37 p.m.
antacidbrn says... #11
Hallow seems like a neat spell! For only 1 mana, that is a lot of value. It also turns off spectacle and Skewer the Critics. I just hate that I have to go card for card with the burn player and wait, but it might be worth it.
Would running Leyline of Sanctity mainboard be a possibility?
And yes, there are at least 4 burn decks in a meta of 12-15 decks so I think optimizing to beat burn would take me far. However, Primevil Titan decks seem to be winning every week.
February 10, 2020 4:32 p.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #12
I mostly played Burn in Modern and I remember losing hard to multiple Loxodon Hierarchs once.
February 10, 2020 4:56 p.m.
wallisface says... #13
I’d sideboard Leyline of Sanctity, and Kor Firewalker. Having either of those in your opening hand should let you beat burn comfortably unless they can deal with it fast.
For additional mainboard hate, maybe a few Scavenging Ooze. Helps to apply some pressure while also keeping you healthy.
February 10, 2020 5:26 p.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #14
It's been mentioned before, but Weather the Storm is one of the best. Play it in response to a burn spell, and you'll gain 6 life. Play it on a turn where they play 2 burn spells, that's 9 life you'll enjoy. It doesn't get more mana efficient than that.
February 11, 2020 midnight
antacidbrn says... #15
I have tested Klothys and Rhonas in my Zoo and love both!
For this reason, I am moving away from Naya and more into Gruul.
I maindecked 4x copies of both Feed the Clan and Weather the Storm. My clear fav is Weather the Storm. When playing against control, leaving the mana up while they Opt, Scry, whatever feels good. It also negates all the burn spells with equal lifegain.
My only question now is, would Life Goes On make sense?
February 16, 2020 11:32 p.m.
wallisface says... #16
Maindecking lifegain cards like these feels like a bad choice. Especially if you’re up against control - your life total is largely irrelevant in such matchups.
Keep these kinds of effects to the sideboard at most.
February 17, 2020 4:20 a.m. Edited.
TriusMalarky says... #17
This might be a bit late, but I hope it helps.
The list you posted earlier in the thread has 6 solid anti burn cards. I think the problem is less "not the right cards" and more "don't know how to use the cards".
There are 3 boxes to check if you want to beat burn:
1) 5+ life
2) Larger board state. Make sure they can't attack without losing creatures.
3) The burn player has an empty hand.
Then, once those three points are complete, you need to kill them ASAP.
You are Zoo. Point 2 and killing them shouldn't be very hard; they're built into your deck. Burn is actively emptying their hand, so it's just a matter of time. All you need are some pointers on 1.
Knight of Autumn and Kitchen Finks are sufficient. What you must do is resolve some early creatures.
Guide and Nacatl, as well as Pelt Collector are great for turn one.
Turn two, you should either use Bonecrusher Giant's Stomp to kill one of their creatures or flood the board even more. Don't attack yet.
Turn three, you want to resolve Knight or Finks. At this point, they should have played ~5 cards and be at ~2-3 cards in hand. If you followed the above instructions, you should be at 10+ life, as they've likely only player 2-3 actual burn spells and you didn't take more than 1-2 damage from creatures(if they went first). Also you should have gained 3-4 life. Alternatively, you can play Bonecrusher here if you Stomped something t2. Still don't attack quite yet, unless your board is 2+ creatures larger than theirs, which is possible with Emissary.
Turn 4: their hand should be essentially gone. If you've played it right, they can't get through your wall. This is where you start attacking. Leave 1-2 creatures on defense in case they attack, preferably the smaller ones like Knight, or leave Finks back because they will never attack into a Finks. It means game over if they kill Finks.
At turn 4, they've likely gotten themselves to 17 or less because of shocks, painlands etc. That extra free Bolt or more will help you when you go on the attack. Because you play Zoo, you should be able to kill them by turn 6. If all goes according to plan, you should end with 5+ life pretty easily.
If you do switch lists, adapt that basic synopsis for the new deck.
Also, here's a couple extra rules:
You want to go 1st 2/3 games, so it helps a lot to win g1. They have a huge advantage when going first. However, don't give up if you lose g1: The most they can do with their SB is have the full playset of Skullcrack. Path is no better against you than Bolt, and they run 18 removal that hurts you anyways.
They might be running Kor Firewalker or another anti-mirror card in their SB. Only about half your creatures are Red, so you can fight through it.
Vexing Devil is horrendous against burn. They will always take the damage. It's like saying "here, I'll just pay 1 mana to discard a card" most of the time. The damage won't matter til turns 4-6, and even then it's not worth it. Burn loves Devil being played against them.
Hope that helps.
April 22, 2020 1:05 p.m.
antacidbrn says... #18
Trius, you have such a well thought out post, I appreciate all of those points!
I started playing at a store with less burn heavy meta. I also decided to make the zoo more aggressive by taking all the lifegain out. The loss of Once Upon a Time to banning was a gut punch, but I began running Manamorphose and it is working well actually. Vexing Devil is gone. Myr Superion is in.
I still have trouble with some aspects of burn. Eidolon of the Great Revel is so difficult when you are behind. Skullcrack is not good. My best answer is Weather the Storm, which has allowed me to be able to gain massive amounts of life. Holding up mana feels weird, but Manamorphose allows me to do something useful with it.
April 23, 2020 11:32 a.m.
TriusMalarky says... #19
I'm interested as to how you're casting Myr Superion. It seems good, but I have no idea how you'd fit that in in a Zoo deck.
Also, Manamorphose is just like running 56 cards, and that's really not bad in an aggressive deck.
If you're having trouble with Eidolon of the Great Revel consider Lightning Helix. It's not bad against aggro in any situation, and it's great in racing. It straight up negates Eidolon's damage when you kill it, meaning if you can immediately blow the Eidolon up with Helix you just pulled a 1-for-1 without the possible extra overtime damage. Plus, Helix is maindeckable as 1-2 copies or even 4 depending on how you're feeling.
Weather is fine as a 1-2 of, possibly 3-of in SB, especially if Storm is a heavy player where you play. Holding up is a free win against Storm, and it's still solid against burn. And I really like that Morphose + Weather interaction, I haven't seen that before.
April 23, 2020 7:11 p.m.
antacidbrn says... #20
Trius, I am running a version of zoo with 4x Burning-Tree Emissary and 4x Hidden Herbalists. I will get the most up to date version of the deck on Tapped Out soon, but those are my main tools.
April 24, 2020 1:50 p.m.
TriusMalarky says... #21
Ah, that makes a lot of sense. I can definitely see being able to cast the Myr off those two. I presume you run a lot of fetches? Also, maybe Mishra's Bauble might be interesting if you can fit it in. It works well with fetches. Don't clog your deck, though, if it doesn't fit it doesn't fit.
April 27, 2020 12:23 p.m.
aaron_the_great says... #22
a interesting card you could run if your trying to be as mana efficient as possible is Silence
shadow63 says... #2
Kor Firewalker or Auriok Champion
February 10, 2020 9:56 a.m.