Fastest way to flip Westvale Abbey Flip?
Modern forum
Posted on June 15, 2016, 1:27 a.m. by Zicca21
As opposed to trying to think of all the ways to get out Ormendahl, Profane Prince Flip asap by myself I thought I'd ask you all!
My best guess is some sort of tokens + Wall of Roots + Cryptolith Rite but I could definitely be missing some cards that if have no idea that they even exist.
Thanks!
Not sure what cards would be best, but look for cards that create multiple +X/+X token creatures depending on ____. That seems easiest as I am looking to put this in my current commander build
June 15, 2016 6:09 a.m.
readerrw07- the idea comes along with lots of tokens, which people will sideboard out some spot removal, and discard to keep things clear. If they want to hold path up the whole game, I can attack with 1/1 flying spirits.
austinjsp- I was thinking the best commander would be Proshh, Skyraider of Kher. Still using Cryptolith Rite. Or maybe Secure the Wastes of you're in white.
June 15, 2016 7:03 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #5
My friend is playing a fairly successfull Abzan Token List with Nissa, Voice of Zendikar he plays two Abbeys and flipps them fairly consistent on turn 5 (when the coast is clear of course).
June 15, 2016 7:22 a.m.
EpicFreddi is that in standard? Or modern? Do you have a link to his deck?
June 15, 2016 9:16 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #7
It is modern and I do not, it's his own brew and he's not on this website.I'll ask him for a picture though.
June 15, 2016 9:34 a.m.
Hold the card over the trash can and drop it in. That will flip it and you won't play a terrible card.
June 15, 2016 10:12 a.m.
I think that's a bit harsh. Ormendahl can potentially have some Modern applications, especially in 
Tokens (which is a bit off the beaten path, but it's still a real deck, especially against most of the Tier 1 metagame). xzzane might have more to add on this front, but sneaking a 1-of Westvale Abbey
Flip in there could probably do some work.
June 15, 2016 10:36 a.m. Edited.
I was being a little facetious but there is too much Path to Exile for this to be good in Modern. Not to mention Vapor Snag effects wreck you.
June 15, 2016 10:39 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #11
I mean you don't even have to flip him. On a stale board he can just produce tokens for you.
June 15, 2016 10:56 a.m.
vampirelazarus says... #12
I would like to point out that Wall of Roots really only gets you one mana, so any dork would work.
June 15, 2016 11:12 a.m.
Yeah, if you suspect Path or Snag, don't flip and just pump out dudes (which is a real boost in an attrition game, which is what Tokens likes to be in). I view the Abbey as kind of a backup plan - if you need a large beater, it can get you one. If you need more tokens because you're drawing bricks, it can get you those too.
June 15, 2016 11:29 a.m.
Abbey is bad in modern. Even if you hit a land drop every turn, the soonest you could play it is turn 6. The token making ability is too costly - both mana and lifewise. There's a reason tokens doesn't like playing multiple blossoms. The flip ability is useful for evading a field wipe, but on the whole you trade a massive field presence that is hard to answer for something that can easily be taken out by things like Path to Exile and Cryptic Command. Tokens doesn't run many colorless lands, because we want to be able to play Spectral Procession turn 3. Abbey is a dead land until turn 6 at minimum. Vault of the Archangel js the superior colorless land.
June 15, 2016 12:13 p.m.
Zicca21 yeah Proshh seems like a viable commander in this case, secure the wastes could be fatal if you happen to build a white based deck but then you risk not pulling that card, unless you wana beef it out with counter token cards... I feel like any commander like proshh would be the best bet
June 15, 2016 1:46 p.m.
You should be able to squeeze in a 1-of Vault and a 1-of Abbey in a 24-land manabase even while trying to hit that T3 Spectral Procession, though. And I'm speaking from an outsider's perspective, but the Abbey looks decent to me. Tokens is a midrange deck, so anything that generates value (even if it's late value) is good, doubly so if it lets you recover from boardwipes and doesn't eat up a spell slot. In fact, a nasty little trick is to respond to a boardwipe by popping the Abbey, untapping, and then smacking people down with Ormendahl, Profane Prince Flip. Most boardwipes are sorcery-speed and costly on the mana side, so they're going to have to find some mana for a suitable removal spell quickly, or Ormendahl is going to beat them. I'm cognizant that it may not move the needle in certain matchups, but I'm unconvinced it's outright bad.
June 15, 2016 2:56 p.m. Edited.
It's not terrible, it just doesn't have a place in the deck. It's extremely rare to have 5 tokens out; you never want to overextend. The second you get the 5 tokens out, you're just asking to get hit by a field wipe or something. I'd have a much better opinion of the card if you didn't have to pay life to produce a token honestly, as that's the only function of the card that you would reliably use. It's just not as good as a second vault.
June 15, 2016 3:13 p.m.
The turn 6 play is tough in B/W tokens which is why I was looking for a few less tokens and more Abzan.
vampirelazarus- I said Cryptolith Rite + Wall of Roots because wall can be used for 2 mana at that point because it doesn't have to tap to create mana initially. 1-mana for Wall's ability, 1-mana from tapping it.
rothgar13- I do really like the idea of dodging a boardwipe by sacrificing and flipping Westvale Abbey Flip in response. Hadn't even been close to thinking of that.
So potentially outside of B/W tokens, could there be a spot?
And the question still remains, how can I flip it fastest? Myr Tribal?
June 15, 2016 4:42 p.m.
Nah, Tokens is the only real deck that can do anything with it, in my opinion. The 5-bodies requirement is onerous, as is the 5 mana, so you need the unique combination of a deck that wants the game to go long, but attacks by going wide. Tokens is the only one I can think of that meets those requirements.
June 15, 2016 5:53 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #20
Zicca21: I see. I was thinking you thought you could drop all five -0/-1 counters that turn.
I've seen bigger rtfc moments than that, had to make sure :P
June 15, 2016 6:40 p.m.
Ignoring the best fit, what's the fastest way? I don't know all the ins and outs of modern.
June 15, 2016 10 p.m.
I mean, you could make a janky Parallel Lives g/w token deck with some ramp through Birds of Paradise.
June 15, 2016 10:06 p.m.
T4 is the fasted I can find...
T1: Land, Birds of Paradise.
T2: Land, play Wall of Roots and then Cryptolith Rite (land+land= wall, wall+bird=rites).
T3: (6 mana available with another land) either Lingering Souls with flashback or 2 Raise the Alarm on opponents turn.
T4: you could even play out discard to see if the coast is clear for dropping and flipping Westvale Abbey Flip. Any way to do it faster?
June 16, 2016 1:15 a.m.
Just thought I'd come in with a quick report. I tested Westvale Abbey Flip in Tokens, and the results are encouraging. I was able to finish a Grixis Delver deck one turn before he landed an Engineered Explosives by flipping the Abbey and swinging for lethal using Ormendahl, Profane Prince Flip and my remaining tokens (my Intangible Virtue got countered). So far, it's working exactly the way I thought it would.
June 16, 2016 12:38 p.m.
T1: Land + Mana Dork + Memnite
T2: Land + 2x Mana Dork + any other 1-drop
T3: Westvale Abbey
Flip - Flip, swing.
June 16, 2016 12:52 p.m.
Grixis delver is one of token's easiest matchups in all of modern. I've tested it as well; it isn't worth the inclusion on the whole.
June 16, 2016 6:44 p.m.
DarkMagician says... #27
Normally I'd say removal is a bullshit excuse for calling a card bad (especially against a creature that shrugs off most removal in the format) but in this case... They're taking care of a multitude of creatures with a single spell, a path or snag turns into a one sided, board wiping Time Walk for half the mana. The idea is cute but terrible in a competitive setting. Now if we're talking FnM or a laid back game with friends... I'd jam that baby into just about any deck I could get to flip it the turn it comes down because it's just such a fun creature to beat face with.
June 17, 2016 5:19 p.m.
I've seen it exactly once in modern, as a 1 of out of the sideboard of Abzan Company.
June 25, 2016 11:09 a.m.
I have absolutely no idea, I guess as an alternate game plan but I really don't know.
June 25, 2016 11:03 p.m.
DarkMagician says... #31
Seems like a wasted sideboard slot,would be better as a one off in the main but what do you cut for it....
readerrw07 says... #2
Cant really help with this, bu I would like to mention that Path to Exile is in every single deck with white in it, so Abbey may now do much for you when that happens
June 15, 2016 2:57 a.m.